E-mail a friendDanica McKellar
airdate August 14, 2007
Danica McKellar began acting at a young age. She went on to make a name for herself with credits that include TV's The Wonder Years and The West Wing and has tried her hand as a filmmaker, with an award-winning short film. McKellar also found time to graduate summa cum laude from UCLA. Dubbed a 'math superstar' by The New York Times, she's written a book for teenage girls, Math Doesn't Suck—encouraging girls to enjoy math and be good at it—and is the official national spokesperson for Math-A-Thon.
Wonder Years actress says she wants to put a friendly face on math. (:58)
Danica McKellar
Tavis: Danica McKellar has enjoyed a successful career in television, first on the "Wonder Years -” she literally grew up on that show - and more recently on the "West Wing." Along with acting, one of her other great passions is math. No - yeah, yeah, math. (Laughter) She is actually a renowned mathematician who has a physics theorem named after her.
Her new book is called "Math Doesn't Suck: How to Survive Middle School Math Without Losing Your Mind or Breaking a Nail." Now you write the book. (Laughter) I didn't have nails to lose, but I lost my mind. Maybe math doesn't suck, but I sucked at math.
Danica McKellar: Oh. Well, you know what? Have you read the book?
Tavis: Well, I have now. I'm saying, now you write the book.
McKellar: This is your chance.
Tavis: Yeah, you're about 25 years too late for me. (Laughter) Tell me how - I'm curious how you came to love math so much.
McKellar: It's, like, something I've always been attracted to, in a way. There's something fun about solving puzzles and I always equated doing math with having a sharp mind. In fact, when I went to college I wasn't planning on being a film major.
Tavis: Are you calling me stupid?
McKellar: No, no, no - I needed.
Tavis: Oh, okay, okay.
McKellar: Not you - you clearly don't need it at all.
Tavis: All right.
McKellar: And I just - so I took a math class at UCLA because I sort of missed that feeling of that logical problem solving, that skill set that you get when you do math. And it's just always - so it's been fun and it also seems to sharpen my mind. I like both reasons.
Tavis: I did well in geometry. I sucked at algebra.
McKellar: A lot of people say that.
Tavis: Did really well in geometry, but just was horrible at algebra. What part of math are you, like, best at? What do you like doing?
McKellar: Well, I love algebra. (Laughter) (Unintelligible) 21 and 20 and 21 and (unintelligible). But also in college I love anything having to do with infinity. There's something about infinitely small things and infinitely many of them, and infinitely large things that I just find fascinating. Irrational numbers. They come up in nature all the time. I just think it's fascinating.
Tavis: How do I want to phrase this? Is it possible to not like math and come to like math, or -
McKellar: Yes.
Tavis: You think so?
McKellar: Absolutely.
Tavis: How does somebody come to like math?
McKellar: Well, the issue is that math has so much bad PR that people believe that they don't like math and that they can't do math before they've even given it a shot. In general, people have the idea that math is too hard and it's for nerds and it's just antisocial and I just can't do it. I hear that all the time. And when people get that message from a really early age, they don't give themselves a chance to like it.
And so the idea is, what I wanted to do is make math more accessible. Put a friendly face on it and say, “Look, this is what we're talking about. We're not talking about some big, scary, mythical, evil math. We're talking about something that teaches your mind how to think logically and math and fractions and things like that come up all the time in life, so it's useful as well.”
Tavis: I wonder whether or not it isn't so much that people don't like math as it is that they don't like the time and the discipline that it takes to problem-solve. I think about any number of other subjects in school that don't require, necessarily, the kind of discipline, the kind of time - particularly if you're doing - you're right, if it were just one plus one equals two, we'd all love math.
But when you really get into the deeper stuff it does take some time. Geometry, algebra - it takes some time to actually work those problems through. So I wonder whether or not it's math, or whether or not it's any subject - math happens to be one of them - that takes time and discipline to problem-solve.
McKellar: Well, are there people who don't like to work? Yes, absolutely. And is there a tendency to - especially in this country - to take the path of least resistance? Yes. But we also understand in this country that you get rewarded for really putting yourself out there and trying and then succeeding. That's part of what the great thing about this country is - anybody can do anything they set their mind to.
So I think that you're right, but at the same time what people don't realize is that there's another subject like math, and that is any foreign language. To me, math is a foreign language, and if people realize that and think of it that way, then maybe they'll be a little more patient. I think what people don't like, more than not liking math, is they don't like the feeling of not being able to do math. I think that's what they don't like. They don't like feeling not smart.
Tavis: Who benefits most from reading a book like this, "Math Doesn't Suck?" The students themselves, the parents, or teachers? Who's the audience for the text?
McKellar: The main audience is middle school girls. The secondary audience is their parents or teachers or whoever else is helping them with their math homework.
Tavis: Why middle school girls specifically? It's not like guys are doing very well at math, either.
McKellar: Well, it's true that everyone is struggling in middle school in math, absolutely. But girls struggle more, and in my research I learned that one of the most alarming things in middle school is that girls and boys are doing about the same in a lot of ways, but girls' confidence in their ability to do math is much lower.
So they are being affected much more by all the messages out there that say that math isn't for girls, it's for guys. And a lot of the teachers have a bias, as well. They believe somewhere in their mind - even if they don't consider themselves to be sexist or anything like that - they still believe that boys are really the ones that better learn this stuff.
If the girls learn it, that's a bonus. But the guys really have to. So they end up focusing more on the boys and making sure that they direct their teaching more toward the boys, they answer on them more, they count more on the boys.
Tavis: I wonder as a society how we deal with the sexism in math, and I raise that, to your point now, because I think of Larry Sommers, former president of Harvard.
McKellar: (Laughs) Yes.
Tavis: So first of all, he makes these salacious and ridiculous comments about Cornel West, the brilliant professor - Dr. West leaves Harvard, goes to Princeton. And if that isn't enough, then Sommers puts his foot in his mouth again, making some pretty strange and crazy statements about women and their lack of aptitude - I'm paraphrasing here - their lack of aptitude for math and sciences - you recall the comment.
McKellar: Oh, yes.
Tavis: That must have made you go batty, when you heard Larry Sommers say that.
McKellar: Oh, (laughs) you have no idea. And the only saving grace is that people did react to it.
Tavis: And he's no longer president.
McKellar: And he's no longer president. And in fact, a woman is president now. So it just goes to show that people care. They were paying attention. And so at least blatant remarks are being reacted to. My concern is all the non-blatant remarks. All the subtle messages that are in the media that tell people that women are really not having to be good at math.
That it's really not for them. One thing I like to say is, like, think about if somebody told you that the next generation of girls in middle school right now were not going to understand any math at all - they weren't going to be able to do it - you'd probably think what a shame, that's horrible. Now what if I said that the next generation of boys weren't going to be able to do any math at all? There'd probably be more alarm in your mind about the future of the country.
Tavis: I wanted to go there, so since you have, let's go there. How concerned are you about the future of our country? It's one thing to have an intellectual conversation about this, but to your point now, the practical is what really is scary for me - that we live in a country where girls and boys are not doing as well as they should in the maths and sciences, and yet we don't have another generation to replace them with.
This is all - what we got is what we got. And I'm concerned about how the U.S. ever regains its place in the world, on a number of different fronts. If, in fact, we never find a way to solve - to crack this code of how we get them to like math and science and to excel at it. So what are your concerns about just the future of this country around that issue on a practical level?
McKellar: Well, on a practical level, right now we're having to outsource to foreign countries for many of our technologically savvy jobs. In fact in 2000, I was invited to speak at Congress about the importance of women in mathematics, and the reason I was being called to speak there is because they were trying to address this very issue, saying, “Well, what are we going to do?”
We are losing more and more of our positions for Americans that are going to foreigners because we're not smart enough. Well, maybe the issue is tapping untapped resources like women, minorities, and people with disabilities in math. But really, everyone is losing interest in math and science.
Tavis: You talk to kids, I read somewhere on your website, about math issues.
McKellar: Oh, all the time, absolutely. Through my website, I've been answering math questions and talking about math issues for a long time. This is my first opportunity to do it in book form, which has been really exciting, but this is also allowing me to - I'll be doing a lot of public speaking and talking to kids and teachers.
Tavis: What prompted you, actually, to do it in book form, to your point?
McKellar: It wasn't my idea, actually. There was an article written about me in "The New York Times" two years ago, and it was about how in between the "Wonder Years" and the "West Wing," I proved a math theorem. So I had, I guess, literary agents in New York sit around and think of book ideas by reading the newspaper.
And so we got a few calls. My manager called me and said, "You have a couple different book agents that want to represent you writing a math book." I'm like, "Writing a math book? Okay." And then I really clicked on the phone with one of them and I thought, how did I not think of this before? I've been interested in math education for years.
Tavis: You know why? You were too busy solving math problems.
McKellar: I guess so.
Tavis: (Laughs) That you didn't take the time to think about a book. To your theorem - we cannot run out of time, because I know ya'll thought I made this up, especially when you saw how attractive she was, she can't have a math theorem named after her. She, in fact, does, and I had to write this down because I'm not even sure I can say the theorem, much less explain it.
So how about I try to say it and we'll ask Danica to explain what I just said? The theorem named after her, it has her name, of course, in the theorem - Percolation and Gibbs States multiplicity for ferromagnetic Ashkin-Teller models on two dimensions, aka the Chayes-McKellar-Winn Theorem.
McKellar: Yes.
Tavis: Did I get that right?
McKellar: Very good.
Tavis: What the heck did I just say?
McKellar: Want me to repeat it or?
Tavis: No, no, explain it, yeah.
McKellar: Well, we used a mathematical model of magnetic material to prove a theorem about the system that's dependent on temperature. You probably don't want a whole lot more than that, but we basically did the math part of an issue that comes up in physics.
Tavis: So how does it feel to have a theorem that bears your name?
McKellar: It feels great. It feels great. But you know, the comment that you made - and thank you very much for complimenting me on my appearance - that how could I have a theorem named after me, that's the very point that I'm addressing in this book. That being glamorous and fashionable and all the rest of it is wonderful and so much fun to pursue as a girl - it really is. It's girly and it's great. Being smart is part of it. It is not a choice.
Tavis: And it's not an either-or.
McKellar: It's not either-or.
Tavis: It can be both-and.
McKellar: Absolutely.
Tavis: So speaking of the gorgeous part of you - the acting, you're still doing that, obviously?
McKellar: Yes, yes. Yeah, I just got back from Hawaii last month, shooting a movie for the Sci-Fi Channel, and I'm about to do an episode of "How I Met Your Mother" in a couple weeks. So I'm still doing it, but this is center stage for me right now.
Tavis: Cool, I'm glad to hear it. It's great conversation; I enjoyed being a part of it, and I'm glad you came by to talk to us about it. The new book by Danica McKellar, with her bad self - a theorem named after her - is " "Math Doesn't Suck: How to Survive Middle School Math Without Losing Your Mind or Breaking a Nail," specifically for middle school girls.
And I'm sure that if you have one of those girls in your household, you might want to run out and get a copy of this. Nice to meet you on the program.
McKellar: Yes, thank you so much.
Tavis: Glad to have you here.
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