E-mail a friendRep. Nancy Pelosi
original airdate October 22, 2007
In January, California Rep. Nancy Pelosi became the first female Speaker of the House, making her the highest-ranking elected woman in U.S. history and second in line for the presidency. Politics and power are second nature to Pelosi. Her dad was a Baltimore politician who ran one of the great political machines, and her brother was a Baltimore mayor. She went from a fast-track family—five children in six years—to ten terms in the House. Pelosi previously served as Minority Leader and House Democratic Whip.
House Speaker discusses her husband and encourages women to get involved in politics. (3:21)
Rep. Nancy Pelosi
Tavis: Tonight, I'm pleased to welcome House Speaker Nancy Pelosi back to this program. She is of course serving her 11th term in Congress from California's eighth district, which includes most of San Francisco. After last year's midterm elections she became, as you know by now, the first woman in U.S. history to serve as the speaker of the House.
It's my honor to say to you for the first time here in studio, Madame Speaker, good to see you.
Speaker Nancy Pelosi: Thank you, Tavis, good to be here.
Tavis: I'm glad to have you on the program.
Pelosi: My pleasure.
Tavis: You still liking the job? You want to give it up yet?
Pelosi: Oh, no, no, no, I love it. I love the fight because it's urgent for our children.
Tavis: Yeah. What have you found to be most surprising, most disappointing - I'll let you color it any way you want to color it - about being the first woman speaker of the House?
Pelosi: Well, from the standpoint of being the first woman speaker of the House, it has not been surprising to me but gratifying that my colleagues caught on right away who had the gavel. And that they understand that the speaker has certain discretion, and they respect that. A surprising part of it is that we haven't been able to end this war.
This war eclipses everything, and this president is just tone deaf, has a tin ear, any way you want to say it, in terms of the wishes of the American people and how he just will veto whatever Congress does, which is a reflection of the wishes of the American people. The war, the war, the war.
Tavis: How do you respond to people who say, respectfully, that it ought not to be surprising that we can't end a war so long as Democrats under your leadership continue to give the president what he asks for? Your fight notwithstanding, how do you respond to those who would say, for example, “If y'all cut off the money, you wouldn't be surprised, the war would end.”
Pelosi: Well it is - and I don't like to use the word surprised, because you're supposed to be prepared for everything. But I thought that he would, at least when we extended some way to work together with him on this, would comply. But he hasn't. I say to them, I'm as frustrated as they are about it. In our House and the House of Representatives we have voted over and over and over again. We can't get it past the Senate, and that's the obstacle. The American people don't want to hear about that, they just want the war to end.
In terms of cutting off the funds, the American people want our troops to be provided for, and so what we're trying to say and what we said over and over is the money will be there, but for a specific purpose: for us to begin safe, honorable, and responsible redeployment of the troops out of Iraq, to be begun now - it's overdue now - to be completed with in a year, and that money should be used for that purpose.
The president, on the other hand, wants a 10-year war, 10 years more, and then in perpetuity a Korea-like situation. A war that'll cost us another trillion dollars. So we try to make that distinction with the American people, but we cannot get that past the United States Senate to put on the president's desk. We did one time. The president vetoed the bill and the Senate has put up an iron gate since then.
Tavis: For folk who are watching this and don't know the intricacies of the politics but do know that both the House and the Senate are now controlled by Democrats, explain how it is that Democrats control both houses and you can't get what you want.
Pelosi: Well, again, it's an inside baseball kind of thing, but it's important to know. The Senate, in order to bring up a bill, by their rules, they have to have 60 votes. So if you don't have 60 votes, you can't bring up the bill.
Tavis: Exactly.
Pelosi: And you can't even go to conference on a bill or anything. As I say, it's procedural, and so it's not an urgent matter to the public, but it does block bringing up a bill. So while we have a bipartisan - Democrats and Republicans agreeing in the Senate, but only to the tune of 56, 57 who say that this has to end, that we have to take a different route. We still can't get the 60 votes.
We in the House now have said to the Senate, “We've tried any number of times to send you a bill to end this war. We are now just going to pass the bills.” And some people will say why do it whether they can pass the Senate or not? Well, we want to change that reality. We want to put so much pressure on, because this is wrong. This is wrong. This war is such a grotesque mistake.
I, of course, have been opposed to it from day one, but nonetheless, however it is that we got into it, we cannot bring stability to the Middle East unless we get out of Iraq. The generals - the retired generals - tell us that. We cannot strengthen our own military - even the chairman of the joint chiefs today again in an interview said that the military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq are weakening our ability to meet other challenges to our security. Afghanistan, we have to be there. That's where the terrorism began, that's the fight we have. Iraq is not the war on terror.
Tavis: I want to talk about some more issues, and we'll do that in just a second. But since we're - I could raise this at any point in our conversation but now is a good time as any, I suspect. You were a part of the leadership, of course, before you became speaker, so you've been around President George W. Bush for the balance of his tenure in the White House.
But now that you are the speaker and you are as close to this guy as a Democrat as you're ever going to get in terms of working with him, tell me about George Bush now that you see this guy up close and personal in the fight, to use your word, that you're engaged in. What do you make of him now that you're this close to him on a regular basis?
Pelosi: Well, I've been close to him for about now five years, as the leader, you mentioned, and now. So I can say this about him, he respects the office of speaker. I saw how he treated the former speaker and I waited to see how he would treat me. He does recognize that I am president, vice president, speaker of the House, the third highest official in the land, and he is respectful in that regard.
It's not about his personality, it's about his policies. They're dead wrong, and many of them are rotten to the core. So I say that, as I said, respecting the office he holds. He's an agreeable fellow, he's a nice man, but the fact is his policies, whether you're talking about the war in Iraq, whether you're talking about the education and healthcare of our children, whether you're talking about healthcare for all Americans, whether you're talking about fairness in our economy, there isn't a subject that you can name that he isn't on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of the future.
And so with that as a basis, you go into the room to have the conversation, try to find common ground. We owe that to the American people. But where we can't find it, you have to stand your ground, and he thinks finding common ground means, "Do it my way," do it his way. And it's just - we do not have a set of shared values that you might expect.
Tavis: We take what we see and read and hear every day as politics as usual in side of Washington. What I mean to suggest by that, Madame Speaker, is that we expect you to say he is an agreeable guy but he's wrong on his policies. We expect President Bush to say that she's a wonderful woman and I respect the office of speaker, but she's wrong about this war in Iraq and so many other issues.
Setting the politics aside, on a personal level, how do you feel when a guy stands up, as he did last week, the president, that is, and says, “You guys have gotten nothing done?” And he just dogs the House; he's dogging your leadership. How do you process that?
Pelosi: Well, here's the thing. I have said this over and over again. Just because President Bush says something doesn't make it so. The fact is he has signed -
Tavis: We told him that, though.
Pelosi: Oh, all the time.
Tavis: I'm just teasing, I'm just teasing. (Laughter)
Pelosi: But I always say to him on - you're not going to hear it, you'll hear it from me first, but here's the thing. Right from the start, H.R. 1, the first bill we passed, the 9/11 commission recommendations, our first responsibility is to keep the American people safe. Six years, nearly, after 9/11, the president signed the bill because it took this - a Democratic Congress to put it on his desk.
So keeping the American people safe with passing the 9/11 commission recommendations, giving the biggest increase in veteran's benefits in the 77-year history of the veteran's administration, how we grow our economy in a fairer way, passing our innovation agenda to keep us number one, to make sure that the economy was fair by passing the minimum wage - all this signed by the president.
How we strengthen our families, passing our legislation which is the biggest package for higher education for tuition for college since the G.I. bill was passed in 1944, signed by Franklin Roosevelt. And on that strengthening families piece, how we keep - invest in the healthcare of our children. Of course, that's the fight we're having right now on SCHIP with the president.
How we preserve our planet, how we passed so many pieces of legislation and more to come on energy, on how to have safe, clean environments for our children so they don't have asthma because the environment is bad and so that the planet is not deteriorating that they are going to inherit. So whether it's protecting the people, growing the economy, strengthening our families, preserving our planet, we've done it in the highest ethical standard, and he signed that bill, our ethics reform bill.
The most fiscally sound way, pay as you go. We made those the rules of the House. The most honest and open government. The reason he says what he says is because he knows the facts are different, and he wants to try to present a different set of facts to the American people.
Tavis: You mentioned that SCHIP is the fight you're engaged in now. For those who don't know and have not been following this - they may not know SCHIP but they certainly know the fight that's been waged.
Pelosi: In healthcare.
Tavis: The healthcare issue - healthcare for children, specifically. You all passed it, to cover millions more children, and the president vetoed it. You tried to override the veto; you didn't have enough votes to make that happen. Tell me where this fight stands now, what you're going to do to address this issue that is still on the radar of many Americans.
Pelosi: Right. The children's health issue, let's call it that, is one that we will never stop fighting for. They keep saying, “Well, no negotiate.” I said, we're not negotiating away 10 million children, as long as the president understands that. But just so your listeners and viewers understand, this was a Democratic and Republican initiative. In the presidency of Bill Clinton it was passed by a Republican Congress where people came together.
Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah was the author. How you could give healthcare to the working poor and those aspiring to the middle class or trying to stay in the middle class. Medicaid was for the poorest of the poor children, and this was the next step, the working poor. People making the minimum wage. In fact, two families making the - two wage-earners in a family making the minimum wage still would qualify for SCHIP. It's not about wealthy people.
So the president has decided that he doesn't - although he said when he ran for president the second time, he said at the Republican convention, "In the second term, we will aggressively pursue and enroll the children who are eligible for the children's health insurance program," and now he is doing the reverse. In fact, his proposal lessens - fewer kids are covered under the president's proposal, by about a million children. So he's at about four or five million, we're at 10 million.
Tavis: Why did he change his mind, to your point?
Pelosi: I don't know. And I've asked him, I've prayed over it, I've prayed for him, that he would stay with what he said at the convention, but he doesn't give any reason. I think - he says that it's because wealthy children are covered. Not true. Don't take it from me; Senator Hatch and Senator Grassley, both Republican senators who are authors of this bill, have said the president is ill-informed on this.
He says it's too expensive. The president of the United States, who's asking us for $200 billion more in the next few months for the war in Iraq, is telling us we can't afford to give healthcare to our children. Think of this. Think of this. For 40 days in Iraq, we can cover 10 million children in America for one year. And the president says we can't afford it.
He's just plain wrong. I think philosophically, maybe identifying with his base or whatever, he doesn't want to cover these children. But whatever it is, we will keep sending something to his desk until he signs it. We'll send him something soon, within the next 10 days. If he doesn't sign that, then we'll have to take it up in the next Congress. But he'll keep seeing that.
Tavis: The question is, I guess, right quick before I move on, is whether or not you can, whatever word you want to use, adjust, change, amend the bill to pick up enough Republican votes to have the numbers that you need to override his veto, should he veto it again.
Pelosi: Well, that's what we're working on right now, and it's not - the fact is what we just have to do is dispel the myths that he has put out there. The fact is that children make - he says $83,000 a year, people get SCHIP. They do not. They never have.
Tavis: But respectfully, it's more than dispelling the myth, because it's not us right now you're playing to. It's those eight or 10 Republican votes that you're playing to, so I guess that's why I'm asking can you amend it or change it enough to get the votes you need to override his veto successfully, should he veto it a second time.
Pelosi: What I'm saying is dispel the myth so that those members have a face-saving way -
Tavis: Okay, got you, got you.
Pelosi: - to then vote for this. But think of it: 10 Republicans in the way of 10 million children getting health insurance.
Tavis: You said earlier, Madame Speaker, that you on this particular issue have prayed for the president; you prayed for understanding on this issue. I want to go back to that - I heard that - go back to that word pray, because there's so much conversation now, as you well know, certainly in the presidential campaign, about the role of faith, about the faith of the persons running, about the talk about their faith, any way you want to slice it and dice it.
A lot of conversation, values, voters, about faith of late. Tell me about the role that your faith plays in your being speaker, because I assumed you were serious when you said I pray about these things.
Pelosi: Well, I do, and I'm raised in a family in Baltimore, Maryland, my father was the mayor. He was in Congress when I was born. And we were devoutly Catholic, very patriotic. We love America. Devoutly Catholic, deeply patriotic, proud of our Italian American heritage, and in our case, staunchly Democratic.
And that faith was related to our Democratic values. That is to say the gospel of Matthew. "When I was hungry, you gave me to eat." You know, the least of our brethren. So that's an inspiration in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, Isaiah says, "To minister to the needs of God's creation is an act of worship. To ignore those needs is to dishonor the god who made us."
I feel that very deeply, that we have - there's a spark of divinity in every person, that the dignity and worth of every person is important and that we have a responsibility to make sure that our country is a country that enables people to have opportunity, to have respect, have healthcare and education and housing and the rest, and my faith drives me very strongly in that direction. It makes it urgent. Reverend King, he talked about the fierce urgency of now. Well, my faith makes it all urgent for me now.
Tavis: You're obviously comfortable in your position as speaker of the House, you're not running for president. I guess the question, though, is, following that statement or answer is whether or not you're comfortable with the fact that your party, whoever the nominee is, can articulate a message as succinctly, as poignantly, as you just did. Whether they can do it, whether they will do it, and whether or not those values, voters, whoever they will be or are, will hear that from a Democrat.
Pelosi: I feel comfortable about any of our candidates. I think they're all great and, as you know, there's some historic opportunities in the field of Democratic candidates. But most of the people that I know that I work with and are supporting any one of these candidates for president are driven by the same respect for every person.
And I know - if you were running for president, Tavis, just think of it, how you could convey to the American people - we all ask God to bless our work. The easy thing to do is do God's work that's already blessed, and I think that people are very compelled in that way who are engaged, and I'm just speaking on the side of the Democrats now, because that's the question you asked.
I'm sure that that exists among Republicans, as well, but then that's why it's hard to understand why they would ignore the needs of God's creations and these children, that they need healthcare and that their families need them to have it.
Tavis: Let me switch gears dramatically here, because you talked about your faith born of the family, in part, that you were born into. Tell me about your family, and specifically your husband. And I don't want to get too personal here, but I think that it's a fair question. We hear so much about you, we know so much about you, and again, there's so much talk, to your earlier point, about the historic opportunities if Hillary Clinton were the nominee and if she were the president.
A whole new role for Americans to get used to with regard to having a first gentleman, or whatever they'd call Bill Clinton, in that capacity. That remains to be seen, but I'm just curious as to what Mr. Pelosi does. Tell me about your husband.
Pelosi: My husband's a businessman. He keeps the ship afloat. We have five children; we met when we were in college. He was at Georgetown University; I was at Trinity College in Washington, D.C. And we got married when we were very young, had five children by the time we were 30 years old, and again, he's a wonderful dad and a great provider, and that's what - he's not particularly - he's interested in politics, but he's not - if I never went into politics, he would not be a sad person. It's like a hobby gone wrong.
Tavis: So how does he navigate, though, your being the speaker and hanging out with you and escorting you? He plays the role?
Pelosi: My husband is born and raised in San Francisco. That's his home, that's where his friends are, that's where his work is, and so he doesn't want to be in Washington, D.C. waiting for me to come off the floor to go to a dinner or something like that. He's home, and I go home on the weekends. From time to time, he comes back to Washington, maybe once a month, because he's chairman of the board of Georgetown School of Foreign Service, and he has - many of our friends are there, and the rest.
But he's his own person, and he's a secure, wonderful, lovely man who is not, shall we say - I went to Congress quite suddenly. I had no plans to do so, when we got married it was never a thought that I would be running for elective office. And I say this hoping that many women in America are listening. Just be ready for the opportunity when it comes.
And it came, and I went to Congress, and he agreed that was okay. We had a family conversation, my youngest daughter - I have five children, four daughters and one son - but our youngest was just going to senior year in high school. And I went to her and I said, "Alexandra, I have a chance now to go to Congress, but it's very sudden and it would be better if one more year, you'd be in college. And do you - what do you think about all that?"
And she said, "Mother, get a life." Get a life. (Laughter) What teenage girl would not like her mother out of town for a couple of days a week? But I was able to do that, because my husband was so supportive. But he's a lovely man, he loves his sports. He's a guy. And as I said, if I stopped doing this tomorrow, he'd probably be happy.
On the other hand, he's happy that I enjoy making the fight that I do, because I just think the injustices that exist in our society, whether they're economic, whether they're social, whatever they - cultural, whatever they are, are not taking America to the more perfect union that our founders envisioned and that our spirituality demands.
And so I travel a lot, it takes a lot of energy, you're in the fight. But when you see the goal and you see the need, the urgency is just very compelling. So he's a good sport.
Tavis: You have five kids, but you are one of six.
Pelosi: That's right.
Tavis: And you were the baby?
Pelosi: Well, actually, it was six boys and one girl. One of my brothers died, so it then became - when he was little - so I was raised with five older brothers, yeah.
Tavis: And that helped you how in your journey to become speaker? What do you take from that experience?
Pelosi: Well, I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this, it helped me because when I went to Congress, I was used to being surrounded by -
Tavis: A bunch of guys.
Pelosi: A bunch of guys. (Laughter) And so it didn't faze me. It wasn't as if oh, my. I was so used to it. And one thing I knew for sure: we needed many more women in Congress, and we have increased our numbers. We have to do much better, because the diversity, both gender and ethnic and any way is essential for us to have the best possible policy.
So in any event, it helped me in that I was used to being around guys and I wasn't fazed by it or trying to impress them in any way. It was just a regular thing for me.
Tavis: Let me offer this as an exit question, perhaps. Whenever your tenure as speaker is over, it would appear that you will be there for a while because if these Republicans keep retiring at the rate that they are, and you all can pick up some of those seats, you may be around for a little while. But how, ultimately, do you want your speakership to be judged?
Pelosi: Just the way I began it. I began it by calling the House to order on behalf of all - I emphasize the all - of America's children. And I have a family, I'm a mom. There's nothing I do in my life will ever be more important than having raised my children and now trying to raise my grandchildren, but getting a little push-back there. (Laughter)
But the thing is is that I wanted to change the way the Congress functioned, that it functioned about the future. That we break the link between lobbyist and legislation, and we're there for the peoples' interest, not the special interest. And if you are there for the children, you make the right decisions - whether it's their health, their education, the economic security of their families.
When people ask me what are the three most important issues facing the Congress, I always say the same thing: our children, our children, our children. I think it is possible our Democrats are now - every bill we have passed, everything I mentioned to you was passed with overwhelming bipartisan support. So I'd like to leave a legacy of civility, where we act in a bipartisan way, a legacy about the future, as I mentioned, and a legacy that says women can handle - can breathe the air at that high altitude of speaker of the House.
Tavis: You're proving that every day. She is, of course, speaker of the House, first woman to so hold that position. Our honor as always to have you on this program, especially in the studio.
Pelosi: My pleasure.
Tavis: So thanks for coming to see us.
Pelosi: Thank you, my pleasure, thank you, Tavis.
Tavis: I'm glad to have you here. Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the House. That's our show for tonight.
Back to October 22, 2007