E-mail a friendMary J. Blige
airdate November 29, 2007
Three-time Grammy winner Mary J. Blige has been dubbed the Queen of Hip-Hop Soul. Mixing urban style with soul, the outspoken artist has had a hit-filled career. She sang in her church choir at age 7 and, later, took solace in music during rough times in the Yonkers' (NY) projects. Blige cut her first demo in a mall and released her first album, 'What's the 411'—a play on the Directory Assistance operator job she held before becoming a singer—to critical acclaim. 'Growing Pains' is her eighth studio CD.
R&B superstar explains why she's not worried about falling off the pedestal people have put her on. (4:14)
Mary J. Blige
Tavis: I am so pleased to welcome Mary J. Blige back to this program. The multiple Grammy award winner has been a fixture on the music scene since her debut CD, "What's the 411" that I was just rocking the other day - 20 years later, it seems. Her latest disk is her eighth studio effort. It's called "Growing Pains." The disk in stores December 18th. Here now, some of the video for the single, "Just Fine."
[Clip]
Tavis: That's nice, Mary, that's nice, that's nice.
Mary J. Blige: Thank you.
Tavis: I like it.
Blige: Thank you.
Tavis: And you like it, too.
Blige: Yeah.
Tavis: I you bopping to your own stuff.
Blige: (Laughs) It's a fun record.
Tavis: The stuff starts moving and Mary's sitting in of her own chair doing some of this. So do you like - maybe like is the wrong way to phrase that. Are you comfortable, uncomfortable, watching, listening to yourself?
Blige: Sometimes. I'm a little better now. But years ago I used to just hate the sound of my voice. I used to hate to hear myself on a answering machine. But these days, as I come accustomed to liking myself a little more or better than I did before, I have to accept everything - the tone of my voice, whatever it is, the shape of my nose. Whatever, I just have to accept it.
So it's easier to take in Mary now, but I'm not running around bumping Mary 24-seven. (Laughter) But when I have to listen to Mary, I listen to Mary.
Tavis: What did Mary not like about Mary's sound? Because I don't like my voice either, but I know I don't like it. I'm curious why you don't like yours.
Blige: Well, it just didn't sound like I looked like that. I could not tie my -
Tavis: Your voice to your look?
Blige: - my face to my voice, and I already hated my face. But my voice sounded like I looked even worse than what I thought I did. (Laughter) So, like, oh, man, I don't even want to hear it. And then when I listened to my voice, it just - to me, it just didn't - I didn't believe anything about myself. So I didn't like anything, I didn't like my voice, I didn't like my singing voice, I didn't like my talking voice. And my singing voice and my talking voice seemed like it was - like I said, it tied into this uglier person than I thought I was. You know what I'm saying?
Tavis: Those of us, your fans - I say us, those of us who love you, and love you deeply -
Blige: Thank you.
Tavis: - love you not just because of that voice that you don't like, but we love you because you have not just been on a journey - each of us is on a journey, whether we acknowledge it or not. But not each of us has the courage to let people see us, to share that journey with us - the good, the bad, and the ugly. You let everybody share; your fans share the journey with you. Was that a conscious decision? Did that kind of just happen? I appreciate it, but why are you so open with us?
Blige: Well, because I am you. I am every female out there in the world, whether she's standing at the bus stop or working at a hair salon or working in corporate America or is a movie star. I am every woman out there. And ever since I was a kid, like, a lot of embarrassing things have happened to me. So by the time I was a teenager, I was, like, just whatever, letting it all hang out. And so at some point I was like, you know what?
Let me just not be ashamed of any of this. Because it is what it is, and if I don't share with people how we can get better from all of this or how we can feel better - it's the embarrassment that keeps us kind of pushed down. So I'm really, like, I'm not embarrassed any more about anything that people, that human beings are going through. We go through things. So I don't mind sharing with my people, because I am my people, and that's how I look at it.
Tavis: Do you have any way of appreciating the fact that you are so empowering to other women? It's one thing for you to make a decision that you're being open - let me put it this way. I said to an audience the other day, of educators - I was speaking to some educators the other day, and I said to these teachers that you're special, whether you know that or not.
People remember what you give them. We all have a favorite teacher that we remember because they did something positive in our lives. So I said to them that you know what you're giving, but you don't know what people are receiving. You know what you're giving these students, but you have no idea what they're receiving from you. And I ask that question of you. I know you know what you're giving, but do you have any idea of what your fans are receiving, how many people are empowered by your music?
Blige: Well, I always want to be clear that I'm not sending my mixed messages out there and I'm clear. So I do have an idea that what I am giving some people - I do have an idea of what I'm giving them. And as far as what they're receiving I would hope is what I'm sending out there. Because I want it crystal clear. It has to be no mixed signals, no mixed messages. It is what it is.
Tavis: If you want to send a clear message, if you don't want the signals to get mixed or crisscrossed, then your lyrical content has got to be head on. And if anybody has lyrics that you cannot misinterpret, it's you. That's by design, that's deliberate, to be as open in your lyrics, as clear, as direct as you are? No more drama.
Blige: Well, it's very deliberate because my fans have been my fans for years, and my fans have children now. I don't want their children going astray because of something I said. And I love my fans, so I have to be very careful with what I'm saying and be clear. So if I'm saying something, I'm going to try to walk and be an example of no more drama. If I'm saying just fine, I'm going to try and walk and be an example of you know - some of my days are great. I'm celebrating some of the days that are just fine.
Tavis: Even with the titles of your CD - the first one is the "411." So here's the 411 about this sister named Mary J. And you run through all the other titles, and the last one, of course, "The Breakthrough." Something is happening in Mary's life where there's a breakthrough, and I'm waiting to see what the next - see, I wait for your CDs just to see what the titles are going to be. Because I know that the title of the CD's going to tell me something about what's going on in Mary J.'s life. So the last one was "The Breakthrough." This one's "Growing Pains." So what you trying to tell me in this CD about your growing pains?
Blige: What I'm trying to tell you is that people automatically will look at the title of the album and focus on the pain. It's not about the pain that we're celebrating. We're celebrating the growth. But you cannot have growth without some kind of pain or tension or discomfort. So in order to sustain this breakthrough that I had, it's going to take a little bit of challenges within me - well, not even a little bit, a lot - to kind of, like, just push all the uncomfortable thinking - I mean all the comfort zones of thinking out and push in all the good stuff and keep the good stuff.
Keep the positive thoughts rolling. Keep the you know what, Mary, every single day you got to love yourself more in order for people to love you. Like, keep those thoughts in. And so it's about you can't have - there is nothing that can work if there is not a negative and a positive. Everything is going back and forth on each other like that.
So it's about the celebration of the growth in Mary J. Blige, but with it it comes - we're not focused on the pain, but it's there. We can't let that be our main oh, the pain, the pain, the pain. When you go to the gym, it's gonna be pain, but you love those results. So that's basically what "Growing Pains" is about. It's a celebration, it's not sad. It's realistic and it's truth in it, and it can relate to everyone.
Tavis: We saw "Just Fine" a little bit. Tell me a couple other songs that you liked.
Blige: Well, there's a song, it's the next single that's coming, it's called "Work That." And what that song is basically saying, sometimes as women, we get tired of what we have. We get tired of our short hair, we get tired of - and we don't want to be happy with what we have. But what I'm saying is this is what we got.
We got to make it. If our hair's short, if you want to go buy some hair, go buy some hair. Whatever you wanna do.
Tavis: What you got to work at, yeah.
Blige: But work what you have. If you're a big girl, make that big girl work and be hot as a big girl. If you're a small girl, be happy as the small chick. So basically what I'm just saying is just whatever your skin color is, if you're dark, light, whatever the case may be, work that. Make that man that you're with believe that you believe that's your hair, even though you know it's not your hair. But make it so convincing.
Like let's have fun with this because if we don't, we're going to be mad that we look like we look. We're going to be mad at our looks when we could just have fun with it and just accept it. This is it. We ain't going to get nothing else. We just got to make it work.
Keep our skin tight, drink water, work out, whatever the case may be. And if you don't want to work out, that's cool too, but be happy with what it is that you - the decision is you made.
Tavis: This track, "Grown Woman," tell me about this one.
Blige: "Grown Woman" is about me just really accepting that I'm a grown woman. And I like the way I dress, there'll be no extra nudity going on. In one of the verses, I said, “I know how to show a little something-something,” meaning as a woman you could show whatever it is, the little thing that you want to show. But Mary J. Blige is probably abs or something like that, or arms, who knows?
But at the end of the day, it's what I choose to show. And it's like I am a grown woman, I'm having fun with it. I respect myself. And my fans, their children will be able to watch me without them turning the channel. So "Grown Woman" is about accepting being a grown woman and having fun with it.
Tavis: What do you think about - and I'm not asking you to comment on particular women - you go where you want to go with this question. But to your point now, Mary, what do you make of women in hip-hop? And I don't want to color it any more than that. I want to give you as much canvas as you need. What do you make of - and you made your own statement about yourself. But what do you make in women in hip-hop today?
Blige: Well, I believe the women in hip-hop are at a place where we all were - survival. You doing what you need to do to survive, and who is anyone to judge you until you can see clearly where you want to be? And until you can make that decision, it's a survival thing. People do whatever they have to do to survive, and that's where a lot of women in hip-hop are.
They don't have finances, and whether they turn to be - not saying that this is all the right thing to do, but it's what they have to do to survive. Whether it's being a stripper or whether it's being a chick in the videos all the time just with - and that's all they know, period. So I really have nothing - I have no judgment and I have nothing negative to say except for I know what that is because I was there. I was them, 10 minutes away from if someone didn't walk into my life and say, "You're better than that," I would have stayed there and I would have gotten worse.
Tavis: In the hip-hop game, your sound is hot today and it's, like, unhot tomorrow.
Blige: Right.
Tavis: There are only a handful of people in this genre who can keep going and going and going like that little Energizer bunny, but you - and for women, it's even more challenging. But you continue to sell records, you continue to put out hits, your empire is expanding. Aside from your talent - and let me just ask you to set your modesty aside for just a second - aside from your talent, why you? Because I can give you a whole bunch of names.
We could do this all night, give each other names back and forth of women who came in the game and a whole lot of brothers who came in the game who had their 15 minutes and they moved on. I ain't mad at them. But you have survived, and these other folks were talented, too. So aside from your talent, why do you think you're still here doing what you do?
Blige: Aside from my talent. Well, I believe God has given me the grace and mercy to have the humility that you asked me to push aside that I got to bring back in, because -
Tavis: (Laughs) That's a good point.
Blige: - it was about never burning the bridges, never kicking a person when they're down, building a sister up instead of killing her image when everybody else is killing her, and looking at myself like there are a thousand chicks out there that can sing and that can come in the game and that can bounce and do all that stuff.
But it's the person that choose not to be like everyone else, and that's what has allowed me to stay in the music business is the wisdom that God gave me ever since I was a child to keep my integrity. Like I've always been a person that, when I said, “I'm going to do something for you,” I try to execute that, I make sure it happens.
And I try not to talk about people, because I had this episode, this karma episode, and I was talking about this girl. And her leg was really, really ashy. And I go "Ah-ha-ha, she's ashy." The next day I had a photo shoot. Now, I know I put lotion on my entire body. I got to that photo shoot and I went to try on my clothes, my entire body was ashy. And I was, like, how did this happen? (Laughter)
So I looked at it like it was karma, so that was a lesson to never - like, just try not to, like, put negative things out there about people or even laugh at people, because you are people too, and things can happen to you. And that's what has kept me - I'm not perfect and I'm not some good saint, but I work hard on trying to do the right thing.
Tavis: You talk so much, and again, so openly, so courageously, about your former self. And again, to our earlier point, each of us is on a journey. But you talk so openly with me about your former self. When you look back on your former self, you think what? What do you think about Mary 10, 15, 20 years ago?
Blige: I guess she was just more afraid of just herself. Afraid of what people are going to think, and just because she - how can I say it? She needed - she wanted love from different places, but the places she wanted love from wouldn't give it to her. So she would do anything to get those people to love her in those places.
So when you're trying to please people, you mess yourself up. You understand what I'm saying? Like, you kind of just - you turn into something that you're not. A follower, so to speak. And so with that comes fear, that comes doing all kind of silly stuff that - so she was just a follower. She was a follower. She was - yeah, basically, that's what it was. Mary back then was a follower, and she wanted acceptance from people that she wasn't never going to get acceptance from.
So waking up and finding out one day that you're never going to get acceptance from those people, it's really, really amazing. Because you're like you know what? I'm cool. Like, I don't need your acceptance. So she was just - she was broken. Broken. She was a mess as a child. She was very, very heavily insecure - very heavily insecure - and not sure. Never really sure.
Tavis: How do you break through something like that?
Blige: Well, you can't do it alone, and what I did was I prayed asked God to help me. I don't want to be this person. Help me. Send me someone to help me get through this. And you got to - once he sends the person to you, you have to be willing to do the work. And what happens is all your blinders come off and you see your environment for what it's worth, and you change it.
Once you see that no one around you cares about you, you want to step out and get a whole another environment because you realize that your environment is the reason why you're suffering. Because they're agreeing to every negative thing it is that you're doing. You understand? Like, everything you do, if you pick up a beer, if you pick up a joint, if you pick up any kind of drug or if you're doing some crazy stuff, they're, like, cheering you on. So when you realize that that's your surroundings, you want people around you that care about you. At least I did.
Tavis: So how do you and every person who becomes somebody - just about everybody who becomes somebody, whatever that means in the world that we live - finds himself or herself out of place in their life where they end up having to purge people?
Now the truth of the matter is that I think, at least, that every one of us has to do that at points in our lives whether we're famous or not famous. There are people around you who don't have your best interests at your heart, and it's best to purge them out of your lives. But when you become a personality for all sorts of reasons, and you know as well as I do, maybe even better, you have to purge certain people, certain situations, certain relationships, out of your life.
How have you navigated those periods of your life where you've had to purge people and then they say, “Mary changed; Mary used to be this; Mary used to be cool; Mary was this” - you know what I'm talking about. How do you get through those periods?
Blige: Well, you risk losing them because at the end of the day, if they're not with you in your positive change, they never been with you. So you just push them away and you just pray for the strength to be able to do what it is that you're going to do for people that's going to like you for you and that are not going to yes-man you to death, and love the fact that you're doing something positive.
Like I risked - I lost a lot of fans. I lost probably a million, two million of those people that are, like, oh, we liked Mary when she was like this, and when she was sad and miserable and blah, blah, blah, and when she was angry. I can't live my life for them, and I can't be concerned about them. I have to be concerned about the kids and the children and the mothers over here that actually want something better out of their life, because I want to be them.
I want to be that mother that wants something better for her child, or that child that wants something better in life. So I can't really be concerned. I understand and I know where they are, because they don't want to move because they're afraid and they don't know how to move. And it's an uncomfortable position for them. Like, they're in a comfort zone. But what I'm trying to do is break the comfort zone so we can move forward, so I can move forward.
And it's going to hurt. It all hurts. That's another part of "Growing Pains," breaking the comfort zones of just whatever, that whole thing. And it's not easy, and I have my husband to help me with all of this stuff, to show me. Like, he came with stability in my life, and insight.
Tavis: By the way, speaking of Kendu, I know it's old now, but I love that commercial.
Blige: Oh, the Chevy commercial?
Tavis: Yes. (Laughter) I love that Chevy commercial. That's a cool commercial. I love that. I was in a conversation over Thanksgiving, a couple dinner parties, and we were talking about this whole notion of role models. And I'm thinking of this now because of our conversation. How do I put this? One of the challenges to being this new Mary, to being this new person that your fans appreciate and love, but one of the challenges is that now people have expectations of you.
Before, it was just an expectation of the good music. But now when you move into that territory of being a role model, then people have the expectations of you. Now because you've been very honest about saying you're not perfect, you're struggling, you're trying to do better every day, and we accept that. We accept that, and I hear that loud and clear.
But because people have expectations of you, do you ever get concerned, worried, about - I don't want to say falling off of this pedestal that they're putting you - yeah, that's what I wanna say. Falling off of this pedestal that people put you on now as a role model?
Blige: Well first of all, God put me on the pedestal. He rose me up to the position that I'm at right now, and I owe it to him to walk out what I'm walking but not try to be so perfect. Like, I'm not trying to be, but understand that I am a human being, and I won't fall off the pedestal if I'm not trying to live up to the pedestal.
If I'm living and walking as a human being as an example, I'm going to make mistakes. I'm free and cool with that. If they're not free and cool with that, then maybe they're all perfect, but I'm not. You understand what I'm saying? So that's why I'm not worried about falling off of a pedestal. When I said no more drama, I meant it.
And when I made my breakthrough it was because I said no more drama. And now in order to sustain, I'm growing, and there's a lot of, here comes the resistance. The resistance say, “Oh, how long can she stay,” and blah, blah, blah? And that's the resistance. And I found myself one day asking myself, am I good enough? And something was like, yes you are. You are good enough for every place you are right now. And I don't know how much time we have, but I have a story.
Tavis: Tell your story, Mary.
Blige: (Laughter) We were at an Oscar party during that whole Grammies, it was a big Mary J. Blige time, and I got a call from Oprah Winfrey. It was the weirdest thing, because she's amazing, and I know she cares about me, but I didn't know she would care enough to want to hang out with me like this, after Africa and all that.
So she goes to the Oscars, she takes my husband and I to the Oscars - or my husband take her and I to the Oscars, we're on both of his arms. And we're at the party, and I'm sitting there -
Tavis: I hate Kendu.
Blige: (Laughter) And I'm sitting there, and out of nowhere comes Nicole Kidman, Meryl Streep, and they're all screaming and talking about how much they love me, and hugging me and kissing me and taking pictures with me. So in the middle of the night I sat there and I looked around and I said, "Am I good enough for all of this?" Like, "Me? Do they really like me?"
And something was, like, yes, they like you. Something in you, they like. And it was like I had to believe that. At that moment, I had to believe that I deserved that moment right there. They might like my talent or whatever the case may be, but it's something that came out of me that they liked. So I had to believe that, and that was my "Growing Pains" moment. That's when I went home and started writing.
Tavis: Started writing this record.
Blige: Exactly.
Tavis: You see, I'm glad you told that story. Because there's nothing I could ask that could have brought that out, but I'm glad you told it. I can't speak for Oprah and Meryl and Nicole Kidman, but I can tell you this: one of the highlights of my year - and I mean this - was being in New Orleans at the Superdome, 12 rows back - and I didn't get a chance to tell Mary I was in the audience that night.
But I was sitting 12 rows back in the Superdome, 70,000 people or more, watching Mary J. perform, and there is nothing like watching Mary J. when she gets to that song "No More Drama" and seeing 50, 60,000 women on their feet singing every lyric to that song because they connect with Mary J. Blige. And so the sisters figured out what Meryl and Nicole and Oprah and them just figured out. (Laughter) And I ain't mad at you. Mary J.'s new CD is called "Growing Pains." I love Mary J. Blige, nothing she can do about that. Mary, good to see you.
Blige: Good to see you, too, Tavis.
Tavis: Have a great holiday season. And that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. (Laughter)
Back to November 29, 2007