E-mail a friendBruce Bartlett
airdate January 29, 2008
Economist Bruce Bartlett was an official in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and helped President George W. Bush craft his early tax cuts. He writes a nationally syndicated newspaper column and for such popular Web sites as RealClearPolitics.com. Ranked number nine on International Economy magazine's list of the most important think tank scholars in the U.S., Bartlett is also a prolific author. His new book, Wrong on Race, is an exposé of the racial roots of the Democratic Party.
Former White House advisor explains why the Democratic Party's history is relevant. (2:04)
Bruce Bartlett
Tavis: Bruce Bartlett served as a policy adviser to the last three Republican presidents beginning with Ronald Reagan. He's also a bestselling author whose book on his former boss, George W. Bush, is called "Imposter." His latest is a frank assessment of the Democratic Party's troubled past on the issue of race called "Wrong on Race: The Democratic Party's Buried Past." He joins us tonight from Washington. Bruce Bartlett, nice to have you on the program.
Bruce Bartlett: Happy to be back.
Tavis: Let me start by saying to you up front and quite frankly I have a strong regard for history. I'm a history buff, I love reading history texts, and yet the first question I've been dying to ask you is why as an African American I should care about the Democratic Party's past if I believe in this election year that party best represents my interests now?
Bartlett: Well, perhaps not. African Americans are very interested in their own history, as you know, and I think that there's a lot of political history that I think they will simply find of interest that may or may not have anything to do with the current political debate. But on the other hand I see a lot of things being said by Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton and reflects a racial divide in the Democratic Party that may well have some connection to some of the things I talk about in my book.
Tavis: But strategically speaking, politically speaking to your party, can a winning strategy be found in beating up on Democrats back in the day like Woodrow Wilson and FDR? We'll talk about that in a second, but what strategic gain is garnered by again beating up on Wilson, beating up on FDR, when your policies today, every poll, survey, and study find, do not resonate with African American voters?
Bartlett: Well the reason I wrote the book is because I want to encourage Republicans to reach out to African Americans. I think that they both need each other pretty badly. I wanted to give Republicans a story to tell, so to speak, or some encouragement, and I thought that by talking about some of the things the Democrats have done in the past, which are indisputable, that they would feel more comfortable in reaching out for African Americans.
And I do talk in the book about some other things at the very end, a strategy that I think Republicans might adopt that might make them more attractive to Black voters.
Tavis: I want to go to the book in just a second. One last question about some of the overarching issues I have with the text itself. Most of our viewers know that last year I moderated two presidential debates, one for the Democrats, one for the Republicans. The four front-runners at the time in the Republican Party, Romney, Giuliani, Thompson, and McCain, did not show up for that conversation.
And I can't help but wonder whether you think them having read this book in advance might have gotten them to the debate or is the point really that they weren't going to show up because the vote does not have the same value to them as other parts of the country?
Bartlett: It's a little bit of a chicken and egg problem. Black voters tend to vote so overwhelmingly for Democrats that Republicans think it's just kind of a waste of time to even try to get their votes. And so something has to give and clearly it's the responsibility of the Republicans to take the first step, and I really wish some of those - I wish all of them had shown up for your debate. I wish that they had shown up at other forums; for example, the NAACP last year at their convention, they invited all of the candidates of both parties.
Tavis: The Urban League and -
Bartlett: Yes, and many others.
Tavis: - (unintelligible) and many others.
Bartlett: Yeah, I think that's tragic. I wish they wouldn't have that attitude.
Tavis: And that's what I was getting at, whether or not you think that a book like this, and why, in fact, a book like this would encourage them to do that. The answer is?
Bartlett: Well, it's a first step, okay? And I think there are some reasons to think that moving forward there may be some opportunities for a dialogue between Republicans and Blacks. For one thing, we have a new generation of Black leaders coming into the fore, of which Barack Obama is certainly the most prominent, who have grown up, who have been born and grown up since the civil rights revolution of the mid-1960s who have a little bit of a different attitude.
They don't have the same loyalty to the Democratic Party that perhaps their parents and grandparents did and they're open to a better offer. And I think there are some issues, such as the immigration issue, on which African Americans feel strongly that illegal immigration is a problem, that it's taking jobs and housing and other things away from them.
And I think that those things have kind of plowed the ground a little bit and all that's necessary now is for an outreach effort, a serious outreach effort, combined with maybe some additional policies that are targeted to the African American community that are in sympathy with the general Republican philosophy.
Tavis: All of that said, there are some fascinating stories in this book. It's a book chock full of stuff that people might not have known. Let me give you a chance to walk through some of it. Two of the worst offenders, given the time that I have, I want to pick two of the worst offenders here in terms of what you raise in the text. Woodrow Wilson I mentioned earlier and FDR, who I mentioned earlier. Strong Democrats. Tell me about Wilson and tell me about FDR.
Bartlett: Well Woodrow Wilson, as you know, had been governor of New Jersey and he was actually a man of the South. He was born in Lynchburg, Virginia. And one of the very first things he did when he became president in 1913 was to segregate the entire federal civil service. Blacks were put into separate buildings and separate offices, and where that wasn't possible they actually put up room dividers to put the Blacks on one side and the Whites on the other.
And in 1916, the old executive office building, which is attached to the White House, created separate washrooms for Blacks and Whites for the very first time and the person who signed that order was an assistant secretary of the Navy named Franklin D. Roosevelt. And when Roosevelt got polio and established the Warm Springs Polo Treatment Facility in Georgia, it was a segregated facility - no Blacks allowed.
When FDR became president and had his first opportunity to point a member of the Supreme Court, he appointed Hugo Black of Alabama, a life member of the Ku Klux Klan. When this was revealed and Roosevelt was asked about it, he said this was news to him, but before he died Hugo Black disclosed he had personally told Roosevelt about his Klan membership and Roosevelt told him "Don't worry about it, I have plenty of friends and supporters who are members."
Tavis: Why do you think, then, and how is it that after all these years, names like Wilson and a name like FDR are told in stories of lore about the Democratic apparatus in this country? Make that big D.
Bartlett: Well I don't actually know. One of the reasons I wrote my book is because I was thinking about writing an article a couple of years ago and was doing some research on the subject and I just assumed somebody had already written this book. And as I looked into it more it just astounded me that this history had never being pulled together and put together in one place.
Like I said, people can say that this is all old news and nobody cares and that's fine. I think history is interesting in and of itself and I think people will find a lot of what's in this book of interest. But I also think, as I said, that it might be a way of helping to encourage Republicans to think about going after the Black vote because I think it would be tremendously helpful to African Americans if both parties competed for their votes and really went after them on election day rather than the Democrats just taking them for granted and the Republicans just ignoring them.
Tavis: Who on the Republican side do you think is best positioned to do that? And I say best positioned because we don't know how this thing is obviously going to turn out. Right now McCain's got the juice. A few days ago it was Mike Huckabee, who did, in fact, show up at that presidential debate I referenced earlier and his campaign, quite frankly, took off after showing up.
I've always liked john McCain. I think he has courage on a number of different fronts; a great American. But who do you think is best positioned on the Republican side to earnestly go after the votes of people of color, African Americans and Hispanics?
Bartlett: Well a couple of weeks ago I probably would have said Mike Huckabee but since then he decided to go after the racist element in South Carolina, talking about the Confederate flag and things like that, which just made absolutely no sense to me at all and I was very disappointed to see him do that. Among the other Republicans, I simply don't know.
I don't see any of them talking about the kinds of issues that I think would be of interest to African Americans. But we're still in the primary phase and whoever gets the nomination will obviously adopt a different strategy.
Tavis: I got about a minute to go here. Let me ask you then, given that you don't have much hope for those in the race right now, how does an issue, an important issue like the one your raising, and I'm thankful for you for raising it, how does an issue like that ever then get traction inside of the party?
Bartlett: Well I think the Republicans are going to lose pretty badly this year and I think if they do they will start looking to find new votes wherever they can. And if Obama should lose the Democratic nomination, there may be more than a few Black voters out there who will feel that that was stolen from him and may be receptive to a Republican outreach.
Tavis: That's a fascinating formulation, that latter part. We will wait and see what happens on that front, but I've heard that once or twice. But to hear it from you makes it all the more fascinating and interesting to consider. The new book from Bruce Bartlett, adviser to three Republican presidents. It's called "Wrong on Race: The Democratic Party's Buried Past."
He's also the author of the "New York Times" bestseller "Imposter," about his former boss, George W. Bush. Bruce Bartlett, nice to have you on the program. All the best to you, sir.
Bartlett: Thank you.
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