E-mail a friendRichard Lewis
airdate March 10, 2008
Often compared to the late Lenny Bruce, Richard Lewis is regarded by his peers as a "comic's comic." The Brooklyn native's credits include his own HBO specials, the sitcom Anything But Love, the drama series 7th Heaven, and HBO's Curb Your Enthusiasm, with his childhood friend, Larry David. In '00, Lewis added author to his résumé with his acclaimed autobiography, The Other Great Depression, which he's currently updating for reprint. He's also on the road with his "Misery Loves Company Stand-Up Tour."
Comedian jokes about Tavis' fashion sense. (:53)
Richard Lewis
Tavis: I'm pleased to welcome Richard Lewis to this program.
Richard Lewis: Don't be so sure of yourself. (Laughter) And by the way, I wrote that song, how come I - I didn't get a dime yet.
Tavis: I can't even get started good. The popular comedian is currently on tour, dates later this week in Boston, followed by stops in Lake Tahoe, San Francisco, and Denver. You can also pick up a copy of the updated version of the memoir, "The Other Great Depression: How I'm Overcoming, on a Daily Basis, at Least a Million Addictions and Dysfunctions and Finding a Spiritual Sometimes Life."
Lewis: I'm hip.
Tavis: Love that subtitle. Richard Lewis, how are you?
Lewis: Hi. It's an honor to be with you. Your work and your history is just - I'm flattered to be with you, man.
Tavis: It's an honor to have you on.
Lewis: No, no, I mean that.
Tavis: I mean that, too, and don't take that jacket off, either.
Lewis: I can't, it's glued onto me.
Tavis: Don't take that - that's a cold jacket, man.
Lewis: Let me tell you - can I tell you one thing?
Tavis: Yeah.
Lewis: They put me in this really tremendous, like, waiting room or green room, whatever. Then, like, I'm there five minutes, I'm walking around, I'm almost jogging around. It's like a presidential suite. And then they say, "We'll get a movie into the James Garner genre." How much better could it be? "Papillion" would have left this place, okay? (Laughter) I had to kill three rats before - about a minute ago. And I play poker with James Garner on occasion. I say you've got a room eight by four, really, you better take his name off the door, seriously.
Anyway, it's great to be here. By the way, this book - let me just very quickly say this, because it's really important to me. I'm a recovered drug addict, alcoholic, sex addict (unintelligible) -
Tavis: Fourteen years now.
Lewis: In August. That day-at-a-time thing, that cliché, is true, because it is a day at a time, it really is. But the deal is the last six years with my old buddy, Larry David, who co-created "Seinfeld" and has "Curb Your Enthusiasm," which has become like a cult show. So I called the publisher and I said, "When I wrote this book, kids now, like, say, graduating college or even in college were like 10 or 11 or 12."
And I said, "I guarantee you, there's -" I don't know what the percentage is and I don't judge people, but I said, "I'm sure there's many addicts, many junkies, many alcoholics," I said, "I go on tour all the time. There are millions of people worldwide who know me now because of 'Curb Your Enthusiasm'."
It's not a matter of money. I said, "Just republish it and I want to write an afterward about it to reflect on the 14 years, almost." And they did it, and I'm really proud of the publisher for doing that. And the afterword, in a nutshell, is this: I thought about this; I said - and I know a lot of people who are sober or people who've changed their lives, and to the good.
But there are a lot of people who might not be shooting junk anymore, might not be drinking anymore and doing well, but still maybe leading an unprincipled life. Now listen, none of us are saints, as they say, and I'm not perfect, God knows. But I said, "What's the point of being sober for 14 years and still being a screwhead and still not leading a life with principles and leaving some sort of legacy?" So that's why I'm proud that the book is out because - that's why it's out again, is the deal.
Tavis: What's the short version of how you got in and how you got out?
Lewis: It's really hard to know when it really gets you by the throat.
Tavis: Right.
Lewis: Of course I've been in show business since I've been in my early twenties, and I was around booze and drugs, and that's true. But so are plumbers and so are caterers and so are bricklayers. It's not a question of just show business. Sure, they enable you more, and that's true. But the truth of the matter is, I don't know the exact time, but there were - my dad died young, I had a breakup with a wonderful woman when I was young for reasons because I thought it wasn't going to work out and she had had children.
And all of a sudden I found myself in my late twenties, me and Leno and Crystal and all these, but I said, "Wait a minute, I don't have any money. I'm living in a dump." And I said, "What if I don't make it? I don't care how many people say I'm great at it." And I don't mean to be grandiose.
And maybe that all fed into my fear, and then the medication of the booze - and it was mainly drinking. Toward the end it was - I never was a heroin addict; cocaine, and that stuff. But the point is I medicated the fear away. So when you see people walking, around and there's a big problem in this country, as you well know, with obesity, it's almost the same thing.
If people have fears about personal problems, they eat it away. In my case, I drank them away. So I don't know the exact date, but I knew I was well on my way. And I think it's fear-based and low self-esteem has a lot to do with it.
Tavis: And yet every good comedian I've ever talked to, including Pryor, back in the day -
Lewis: Yeah, arguably the greatest that ever lived.
Tavis: I think you're right about that. Every comedian I've talked to who's worth his or her weight in gold says that what drives them is the fear. You meet so many comedians who are good at what they do because they're running from something or their comedy is motivated by whatever it is they're afraid of.
Lewis: This is true.
Tavis: True for you?
Lewis: Absolutely. I went on stage and - and I've become, like, really close with 82-year-old Jonathan Winters, and what I said about Pryor, Jonathan Winters, so many people don't know about him. Arguably, to me, maybe the most explosively funny human being I've ever met. And this guy has gone almost a half a century being sober, went through his nervous breakdowns, and this guy talks to me like the father I never had.
And he still talks about his family, he still talks about not getting the love from his parents, which is true, and he'd be the first to admit it. And I think a lot of it is driven, like with Pryor's material, and with all due respect, what I talk about is there's a thin line between entertainment and narcissism, but I said to myself, I don't want to be an observational comedian.
Hey, did you ever notice when you go to K-Mart? I said, I was judged my whole life. I don't want to tell people did you see how many socks? I said, I want to talk about why I'm feeling so miserable, and if I get laughs that means I'm not alone. So I was driven by - I needed adulation from strangers, sadly, because I wasn't getting enough from people who loved me, but didn't know how to love me the right way.
Tavis: Okay, so here's the question then, Richard. When you are sober for 14 years and your comedy has been based upon why I feel so miserable, and obviously you're looking good and you're feeling great, does that mean you're not funny anymore? Am I wasting my time to come see you now?
Lewis: Well, no. I wrote a joke years ago that I have so much clarity now I despise myself even more. (Laughter) No. In fact, in the "Yale Book of Quotations," thank God, because Bartlett's was so stupid not doing this, about 30 years ago, David Letterman gave me a great start in my career. I was on, like, every six weeks, I did about y0 appearances.
And I used to do this thing, being an active alcoholic, that whatever happened wasn't my fault. I was the victim - the mother from hell, the date from hell, the dentist from hell, the car from hell. And it became part of the vernacular, there's no question about it. And the "Yale Book of Quotations" has finally credited me with that.
But when I got sober, part of being sober is to say, "Wait a minute. I was a screwhead. It wasn't the other people just. Look, I dated some women who, quite frankly, didn't need valet parking; they turned into a bat and flew home. (Laughter) Really, it wasn't just me. But I wasn't a great guy. I wasn't the greatest uncle. I would never have met - I met my wife 10 years ago.
Tavis: You got married late.
Lewis: Yeah, I wanted to get it all done. (Laughter) I wanted everything done. There's no oats left in the barn. (Laughter) And my wife, my wife, can I just say this? I met her 10 years ago, and this is not to name - well, I am name-dropping. Ringo Starr - you don't call Ringo, if you know him, Ringo. You call him Richard or he'll kill you.
It's like calling - I once auditioned for Ron Howard? I didn't get the role, but I said, "Jeez, I know I'm going to make a mistake and say, 'Hey, Opie, you're a brilliant, brilliant man," and then that's it. He'll chase you with a pitchfork. (Laughter) So I didn't get the role, but at least I didn't say "Opie." But I met my wife, Joyce, whose name we both don't really like tremendously.
Tavis: Hey, my mother's name is Joyce.
Lewis: I love Joyce, and I'm going to say that it's one of the great names, by the way. (Laughter) It might be better for an African American to be called Joyce.
Tavis: Is that what it is?
Lewis: Yes.
Tavis: Okay.
Lewis: Because a White woman named Joyce sounds like a Jewish hostess at a Chinese restaurant in the Catskills. I don't get it. (Laughter) But Joyce and I, we met at this record thing, and Richard and she was there, and I married her three years ago. And she has devoted herself to - and I must say this because I'm so proud of her; she works more than she did in the record business.
I said, "Look, I'm 60 years old, man. I've been doing this for almost 39 years. Get out of the record business - and we both are very political and we're both - we were both, I guess, liberals. I don't even know what that means anymore. But we just get - so she works for Urbanfarming.org. It's a great website, and the mission statement is "To feed the hungry and to beautify the inner cities."
And what she does, and she's, like, on the board and I'm on the board, and it's like they plant food all over the country, and people can go and actually pick their dinners and their lunches because God knows this last administration could care less. And so she works full-time helping to feed the hungry.
Once I got sober, it gave me more time, Tavis, to really say, "Wait a minute, what have I not been doing? What have I not been doing with my life?" I can go on stage and make people laugh, but when I'm off, can I be - I have three nephews and a niece and they're going to have 10 children. My sister had 10. Thank God for my brother-in-law's sperm, otherwise it would be over.
Tavis: It'd be over, yeah.
Lewis: Yeah, there would just be me and Woody Woodpecker. (Laughter) But we had a chance to have children, my wife and I. She's younger than me, but I used to date women half my age. They'd be coloring at dinner, it was embarrassing.
Tavis: There is a funny story you tell in the book.
Lewis: Oh, when I met the wife?
Tavis: No, no, no, about the White House.
Lewis: When I saw her in the car?
Tavis: No, no, about the White House. When you went to -
Lewis: Oh, with the Clintons' White House.
Tavis: Exactly. You want to tell the story? Your friends were pushing into rehab.
Lewis: Yeah, and I did.
Tavis: But you said, "First, I've got to go to the White House."
Lewis: I worked very hard for almost 12 years, at least, for the Clintons and the Gores, and President Clinton at the time said, "I want you to come as my guest to the Oval Office." But you need tough love. I got to the point where I was dying and my family and my friends who were involved said, "You're going right to rehab."
I went, "No, no." I said, "There's a deal-breaker. I'm not missing this opportunity." So I went to - President Clinton didn't know that I was on my way to rehab. You're not going to say, "Hey, great to be here. By the way, I'm a drunk and a drug addict." (Laughter) So I didn't do that.
But the one thing that was really interesting to me, after I was sober - and these are the things, these cross-addictions are murder. Because even though I don't drink and do those drugs anymore, it could be candy, it could be - you've got to really keep a lid on yourself or you could blow it. You can really blow it. I don't know the story, what's behind the governor of New York now, but I just saw little bits and pieces.
Tavis: Not a good story.
Lewis: Not a good story. Now I don't know the reason, I didn't read the "New York Times" article, but the point is you think to yourself people like this have everything. They've got money, they got prestige, they're in government, and they've done a lot to help people. But they're only people, we're only human. That's our biggest flaw, we're humans.
And I remember one quick thing, when I went to my therapist and I said, "I met Joyce - " and I love the name by the way, Tavis, don't get me wrong (laughter) - and I said, "I fell in love and I'm not going to cheat and I'm going to be principled." And I walk out and I'm feeling great and I drive in my car and I see this gorgeous woman in a car with, like, sort of tinted windows?
Tavis: Right.
Lewis: And I don't know what I was going to do but I was going, like, 100 miles an hour to catch up to her at a red light. And it was Joyce.
Tavis: It was Joyce.
Lewis: A billion-to-one shot. And she's really hip. And the window comes down and she says, "Richard, how long did you know it was me?" I went, "I knew it was you. I wanted to ask you what we're having for dinner tonight." (Laughter) And so I went back and I spoke to a rock and roll guy who must have had eight billion women, and I said, "I tried to pick up my own girlfriend."
And he looked at me and went - I won't say the word on PBS - he went "Marry her. Marry her. If you tried to pick up your own girl, I think that speaks volumes."
Tavis: And "Richard Lewis Naked: Behind the Seen," S-E-E-N, and the book now out again in paperback, "The Other Great Depression." You've got to come back, man; we're just scratching the surface here tonight.
Lewis: Listen, I'm really flattered to be with you. The work you do is just, it's -
Tavis: Oh, you're too kind.
Lewis: No, no, I really mean it, man.
Tavis: Leave the jacket in the green room.
Lewis: Huh?
Tavis: Leave the jacket in the green room.
Lewis: Yeah, but you can keep your suit. (Laughter) I wouldn't wear that suit if Tony Soprano had a gun to my head. (Laughter)
Tavis: You never get the last word with these comedians, do you?
Lewis: That's not true, I was kidding. Let me ask you a question. Is this thing sewn in? Did it come like that, or is it -
Tavis: No, would you like this?
Lewis: Huh?
Tavis: Would you like that?
Lewis: That was like a David Copperfield trick.
Tavis: There you go.
Lewis: Look, look, a penguin! (Laughter)
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