E-mail a friendSen. Evan Bayh
airdate April 28, 2008
Indiana senator explains his state's voter ID law and why he's disappointed that the U.S. Supreme Court upheld it. (2:48)
Sen. Evan Bayh
Tavis: Senator Evan Bayh is serving his second term in the U.S. Senate from Indiana, following two terms as the popular governor of my home state, the Hoosier state. He is supporting Hillary Clinton in next week's critical primary in Indiana. He joins us tonight, though, from Capitol Hill. Senator Bayh, as always, nice to have you back on the program.
Sen. Evan Bayh: Tavis, it's good to be with you, and we're very grateful you haven't forgotten your roots.
Tavis: No, never do that, never do that. Let me start by asking about the news of the day, this Supreme Court ruling upholding Indiana's I think fair to say very strict ID law. Tell me where you stood on the issue and what you make of today's Supreme Court ruling.
Bayh: Well, Tavis, I am disappointed in the Supreme Court's ruling. If I had been governor of our state I would have vetoed that law, but I was not governor. Unfortunately, I think it's going to have the practical effect of limiting the opportunities for too many minorities, the disabled, the elderly, to exercise their franchise to go to vote.
We've got enough barriers in our country to doing that kind of thing, and as far as I know, there was not widespread voter fraud - in fact, very, very few, if any, indications of voter fraud in our state. So I think it's an unfortunate decision.
Tavis: And the law essentially says what about what people need to do now when they cast their vote or go to vote?
Bayh: Well, the law says you've got to have a picture ID, like a driver's license or a passport, something like that. And as you know, many of our elderly, who don't vote, many poor people who don't have an automobile, many in the minority community don't have those kind of IDs, and they're going to be turned away from the polls.
And at a time when too many of our people aren't participating, I don't think we should be erecting more barriers to participation, particularly when there's no evidence that there's fraud taking place. So this was something that was enacted to prevent a problem that as far as I know didn't exist.
Tavis: You're right about the fact that there's no evidence that fraud existed. How do you respond to the argument, though, that was promulgated, that it really is a security issue. That in America, post-9/11, we need to make sure that the right people are voting, etc., etc. They made this a security issue, as you know.
Bayh: What, they think there are a lot of al Qaeda that are going to be coming in to vote?
Tavis: (Laughs) And in Indiana, of all places.
Bayh: I find that fairly hard to believe. Look, there are legitimate reasons for security in airports and places like that, but we've got a big problem with not enough people voting, and in the absence of voter fraud, I just don't see the reasoning for this. I'm afraid it's going to disenfranchise a lot of people, not prohibit fraud, which wasn't taking place anyway, and the security argument, I just don't see that.
Tavis: One last question on this and we'll move on. There are those who now believe, given that this decision, this ruling, this law, I should say, out of Indiana now has been upheld by the Supreme Court, that we're going to see a domino effect, that there'll be other states just like Indiana that would do the same thing.
Bayh: Well, regrettably, some other states already have laws like this, and this may make it easier for other states to do the same, but I hope they won't do that, Tavis. If we're going to move this country forward and solve the problems we face, we need everybody participating, everyone having their voices heard, and we don't need - we need to be taking down barriers, not erecting others.
Tavis: So you and I are both proud Hoosiers from the state of Indiana, and I know in my lifetime I can't recall it; you're a couple years older than me, not much, I don't know if you can recall it. But when is the last time that our little state had this much importance in a national election?
Bayh: Last time we had a meaningful primary was 40 years ago, 1968. We were the first state that Bobby Kennedy campaigned in and of course ultimately won. And frankly, Tavis, whether you're for Hillary or Barack, the people of Indiana are loving this. (Laughter) We've got thousands - we've been starved for attention and the rallies on both sides, there are thousands of people coming out.
We've got 150,000 new people have registered to vote. We have tens of thousands of volunteers on both sides, thousands of more contributors. So this is good for the process in our state, and I'm hopeful that we can find a way, in a bipartisan way, to make Indiana matter more than once every half-century or so.
Tavis: You've chosen to support Hillary Clinton. Let me ask why.
Bayh: Well, I've known her for 20 years, Tavis, and so it's based upon two decades of experience. I know of her strength, her seasoning, her in-depth knowledge of many of the issues that we face, and I just think that that skill set at this moment in time, the ability to get the results that we need, makes her uniquely qualified.
Now having said that, I'm for Hillary Clinton and strongly so, but I'm not against Barack Obama. I think highly of him as well, I think he's a gifted leader, a very formidable individual, and if he's our party nominee, of course I'll support him.
Tavis: Let me ask you, then, how you think Hillary plays in Indiana. A lot of comparisons to Pennsylvania, in terms of what our state looks like. You are obviously beloved in Indiana, former governor, now U.S. senator; your father, of course, U.S. senator. So you know this terrain as well as anyone. Tell me how you think she plays in Indiana?
Bayh: Well, they're both playing well. This is what we would call a quality problem. Democrats like both of them, and so I don't think the votes are going to reflect negative feelings, really, about either one of them. It's just a different assessment about who has the right tools at this moment in time, the right skill set to actually take us to a better place.
And I think many people like the inspiration of Barack. They like the uplifting rhetoric and the appeal to more unity and less division and changing the ways things are in Washington. I think about Hillary, people like that strength, that grittiness, that stick-to-itiveness and the sense that she'll actually deliver some of the results that we need.
And so she tends to do a little better among people who have economic anxieties, whether it's they're worried about their job or healthcare costs or college affordability, pension insecurity - those kind of bread-and-butter, kitchen table issues, because as much as they want to be inspired, and that is a good thing, most of all they want progress, they want results. They want somebody who's actually going to dig in there and get the job done, and I think that that stands her in good stead.
Tavis: I was just in a conversation yesterday, Senator Bayh, with a couple friends of mine who were asking me, because they know I'm from Indiana, asking me about this - I was in a restaurant, as a matter of fact, and ran into some folk and they started asking my opinion about this Indiana primary.
And I found myself in a conversation, sharing with them what it was like for me, as a Black kid growing up in Indiana, a very Republican state, with all due respect to you and your father, over the years when I was growing up certainly a very Republican state, a state that was basically Black and White and obviously a whole lot more White than Black.
It's mind boggling to me that in my lifetime that a Black man could be running as close as he is for the nomination in a state like Indiana. I love the state, but it's been fascinating to watch how the state's changed over the years. What do you make of the fact that as a Black guy, he's running as well as he is in Indiana, of all places?
Bayh: Well, I think that is a wonderful testament to a couple of things, Tavis. First, to Barack Obama, he is a very gifted person and he's a formidable public figure, and people are drawn to him because of all those positive things. And so I think that speaks tremendously good things about him, number one.
Number two, it does show that our state has made a lot of progress in this regard, and in my lifetime, matter of fact, when I was governor, we became the first state out of the old Confederacy to elect two African Americans to statewide office. Wonderful woman, Pam Carter, became our first female attorney general, and Dwayne Brown became the clerk of the courts.
And our state is more Republican, as you say, and it tends to be a little more conservative than liberal, and yet people were willing to overlook those things. And so I hope we've made a lot of progress in judging people for who and what they are as individuals, regardless of some of the superficial characteristics, whether that's race or gender or ethnicity or a lot of these other things.
So he's a very strong, gifted person, I think we've seen a lot of progress as a state and as a country, and both of those are very good things.
Tavis: He can't bowl, and I'm sure she can, but he plays basketball. (Laughter) He plays basketball. In Indiana, that's very important, as you well know.
Bayh: Yeah, he's got a pretty good shot. He does. I saw him, they were showing some video, he stripped a guy and the ball went down the court the other day. That's a pretty good move.
Tavis: Yeah, basketball - big deal in Indiana. Beyond Indiana and this tight race that we have there, your thoughts on this superdelegate conversation that for obvious reasons just won't go away?
Bayh: On the superdelegate conversation?
Tavis: Yeah.
Bayh: Well, that's - we're going to just need to let this play out, and I would look at a couple of things. First of all, I think the most significant thing, Tavis, is the popular vote. Real men and women, real voters, who got the most votes overall? People going into the voting booth or in those caucuses and expressing their preference.
The elected delegates, that's very important, too - very important. But really, they're just representatives of the people themselves. And so I think first let's look at the aggregate popular vote, and if somebody wins both the popular vote and the elected delegates, well then that's a very formidable argument for that person. And if those two things are split, then you start looking at things like well, electability.
Because we've got two good people here. Either one would be a lot better than what we've had. Either one of them would lead us in a better direction. In order to make that happen, you've got to win the election. And so you start looked at okay, between two good people, who is really most likely to get the job done?
So I'd start with popular vote, I'd then look at elected delegates. And if those two things are split or just about dead even, then you've got to look at who has the best chance of getting the job done.
Tavis: There are all kinds of questions, to your point, now being raised, with all due respect to Barack Obama, about his electability in the fall. About that, you think what?
Bayh: Well, you can listen to the spin of either side about which states they're going to do the best in and who's going to do better with this group of voters or that group of voters, and you can just kind of take all that in, Tavis, for whatever it's worth. But I would focus on a couple of things. First, we know for a fact that Ohio was the key state last time. I mean it was, came down to that.
John Kerry has said, very famously, if he'd only gotten 70,000 more votes in the state of Ohio he'd be president today, and that's true. And she's running about four or five points ahead of John McCain today, if you average out all the polls in Ohio, and Barack's running about two or three points behind.
So that's just a fact in a key state that we know made the difference last time. You go back four years before that, as we all recall, Florida was the key state. And if you average out all the polls in the state of Florida right now, she is about dead even with John McCain and Barack's about 11 points behind.
So in those two key states, at least, that made the difference in the last two elections, she's running a little bit stronger than he is. Now he's running stronger some places, she's running stronger other places. If you look at all the polls again, John McCain is ahead, when paired against Barack, in states with about 261 electoral votes, and he's ahead of Hillary Clinton in states with about 214 electoral votes. So she seems to have an advantage there in the Electoral College.
So look, these things can go up and down, a lot of things can change between now and November. But I think you can make a pretty good argument that in at least those two key states, excuse me, and in the Electoral College overall, she's got a little bit of a leg up right now. Doesn't mean she's going to ultimately win, but right now, that's the way it looks.
Tavis: Well, I know one thing. In Indiana, where I am from and where you are from, obviously, she is honored to have you on her campaign as a surrogate and as a supporter. We will keep our eyes on the Hoosier state to see what happens there just a week or so from now, and I'm always honored to have you on the program.
Bayh: Tavis, it's good to be back. And by the way, both of them are now running competitive races against John McCain, even in our home state. So that's a very good thing, bodes well for the future. Love to come back; good to be with you.
Tavis: We'll have you back again, I promise, as we keep our eye on what happens in Indiana before we get to the rest of these states that have to have their say. But it just feels good to be from Indiana and have your state matter for a change. (Laughs)
Bayh: All I can say is, Tavis, it's about time.
Tavis: It's about time, 40 years later.
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