TONIGHT
E-mail a friendMarwan Muasher
original airdate June 26, 2008
Marwan Muasher has 20 years of experience with the peace process in the Middle East and the perspectives for reform and peace in the region. He's held many high-level positions within the Jordanian government, including deputy prime minister, foreign minister, Ambassador to the U.S., and first Jordanian Ambassador to Israel. Muasher began his career as a journalist for the Jordan Times. He holds a PhD from Purdue and is senior VP of external affairs for the World Bank. He's also author of The Arab Center.
Former Jordanian foreign minister explains why Sec. Condoleezza Rice's work in the Middle East might be too little too late. (1:34)
Full interview. (9:34)
Marwan Muasher
Tavis: Marwan Muasher has served in a number of key positions in the Jordanian government, including foreign minister and ambassador to the U.S. He is now senior vice president for external affairs at the World Bank and author of the new book "The Arab Center: The Promise of Moderation." He joins us tonight from Washington. Mr. Ambassador, nice to have you on the program, sir.
Marwan Muasher: Thank you.
Tavis: Let me start with the obvious question - what is the Arab Center?
Muasher: I'm talking about Arab moderation, and I make the point that on the peace process, there is a center that has been very actively involved in trying to find out a peaceful settlement to the Arab-Israeli conflict. I also make the point that this is a one-issue center on peace and has not been centered on other issues of concern to Arab society, such as good governments, political reform, and economic well-being, and that for the center to be credible, it needs to expand its moderation to cover all these areas.
Tavis: Tell me more, then, about why the Arab Center has not been successful in this conflict.
Muasher: I think on the peace process, on the conflict, it has not been added by the international community or Israel frankly. It has put forward on the table bold initiatives to solve the conflict, including the Arab peace plan of 2002, committing the whole Arab world to a collective peace treaty with Israel, including the Middle East road map in 2003, giving the parties a road map to end the occupation and a two-state solution. Unfortunately, this initiative - both these initiatives were not taken very seriously, either by Israel or by the United States.
Tavis: Help me understand, then, and for those who are watching who don't quite get this, why it is that we hear all the time our leaders in the U.S. and world leaders say, "We've got to find some common ground on this, we've got to get to the middle on this." Everybody pretty much agrees on a two-state solution. If you're telling me that all the things you've just laid out and that I've just articulated make up the viewpoint of the Arab Center, that sounds like pretty much what everybody keeps saying they want, so again, I'm not understanding why that ideology has not yielded more fruit.
Muasher: A two-state solution is indeed a solution that is the interests of all, Arabs and Israelis alike. And whereas this is the declared position of everyone - Arab states, Israelis, and the United States - to arrive at a two-state solution, I believe that Israel so far has resisted this because of settlement activity, because of the construction of the wall, because of their need to keep all the land of historical Palestine instead of giving it up to, or part of it, to Palestinians.
The United States also in recent years has been engaged mainly in Iraq, has disengaged itself from the peace process for the last seven years, and that has had disastrous results on peacemaking.
Tavis: You were a former ambassador to Israel. I'll come back to that in just a second. But how much of this do you think has to do with the fact that at various points and times, the wrong players have been sitting at the table?
Muasher: Well, that is part of it, and it is frankly difficult to wait for a time when all the stars are aligned in the same way to have a solution happen. Fortunately, the framework of a solution is already in place. All the parameters of a solution have already been negotiated among the parties themselves. Today we're not in search of a solution; today we're in search of the political will to make that solution happen, and this is something that I believe the United States, in coordination with the international community, can play a very positive role in.
Tavis: What do you make of King Abdullah's comments recently that if a two-state solution is not found in 2008/2009, he doesn't see it happening beyond then?
Muasher: I totally agree with it. If you look today at the West Bank, with all the settlements that are all over the place, if you look at the wall, if you look at Israel's so far opposition to bring about a peaceful solution, in one or two years we will not have the possibility of having two states - one for the Palestinians and one for the Israelis. If we don't act quickly, I don't think that we will have a two-state solution. I also think that we will have to deal with radicalism in the area for a long period to come.
Tavis: What do you make of the fact that our secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice - my phrase here - has pretty much taken up residence in the Middle East of late, spending a whole lot of time there? Too little, too late, or something that I'm missing here?
Muasher: I think what Secretary Rice has done is commendable. However, I also believe that she should have done it earlier. I don't think you can disengage from the process for seven years, take it on in your eighth year and hope to get a solution. If there's any advice that I would suggest to the new incoming administration, it is that they should take on the Arab-Israeli conflict in the first term and try to bring about a solution.
Tavis: I think most folk in the world agree that America is for the most part a good partner to have, a good ally to have in many respects. I wonder, though, whether or not you think the U.S. is regarded anymore as a credible broker in the Middle East?
Muasher: The idea of the U.S. being sort of an honest broker of giving equal attention to each side's interests is an idea that all sides practically have abandoned. But at the same time, there is no alternative. Other than the United States, there is no power that can make it happen, because the United States is the only superpower that Israel trusts, because the United States is the only superpower that is able to guarantee a solution for all parties. And therefore, all parties are looking to the United States to help bring that about.
Tavis: Take me back to your time as ambassador to Israel from Jordan, and what you made of that experience.
Muasher: Well, I consider myself one of the moderates, one of the champions of Arab-Israeli peace. When I was asked to become ambassador, I had great reluctance. It is not easy to cross the psychological divide that exists between the two parties. And I had, frankly, to make a leap of faith in accepting to go to Israel, and it is something that I write about and that I believe all parties, individuals as well as countries in the Middle East, will have to do, is to give up the past, is to look to the future, and make this leap of faith. Otherwise, peace will not be possible.
Tavis: You talk in the book about your having sat next to Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli prime minister, back in 1995 the day of his assassination. You had been sitting right next to him. I'll let you tell the story of how you ended up not being there when he was shot. Tell me the story.
Muasher: I was asked to be with Prime Minister Rabin at that peace rally as a representative of my country. I was the ambassador there, together with the Egyptian ambassador. It was an electrifying night, where 250,000 people were singing for peace, and you could see that Rabin was visibly moved and that he felt exonerated that his policies were the right policies, with all this support.
A minute or two before he was assassinated, I left the place together with the Egyptian ambassador, went down the same stairs that he did a minute or so after us, and I heard the news while I was in the car.
Tavis: What do you make of the fact that you, for whatever reason, were not there?
Muasher: Well, I guess it's destiny. I think that the peace process has certainly suffered from Rabin's absence; also from King Hussein's absence of the scene. You had two great leaders who worked tirelessly for peace, and we are seeing today that because of their absence I think the process has truly suffered.
Tavis: Are you hearing or seeing anything with regard to the presidential campaign underway now between the two presumptive nominees, Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain, that gives you reason to be more hopeful or for that matter reason to believe that the strategy on the part of the U.S. government is going to change in any significant and meaningful way?
Muasher: The two parties have not really said much about the Arab-Israeli conflict, and I think most of the focus in the Middle East so far has been on Iraq. But I claim that if that conflict is not resolved soon, then the radicalization of the region, which is happening at an alarming degree, will be of great detriment, not just to the region but to the interests of the U.S., and my advice to both Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain is, as I said, to take on the Arab-Israeli conflict early on.
We have the parameters of a solution. Not much work needs to be done. What needs to be done is a political will to bring the two sides together and bring about such a solution, and I firmly believe that this can be done, as the framework has already been negotiated many times among the parties themselves.
Tavis: Ambassador Marwan Muasher's new book is called "The Arab Center: The Promise of Moderation." Mr. Ambassador, thank you for your work and nice to have you on the program.
Muasher: Thank you.
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