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Author explains why Sen. Obama has been losing ground in the polls to Sen. McCain. (1:38)
 

Full interview. (11:22)
 

Tavis: Tonight we begin with a look at the tight race between Obama and McCain with our friend, Frank Luntz, long-time political and communications consultant and best-selling author whose most recent book is called "Words That Work: It's Not What You Say, It's What People Hear", the book now out in paperback. Frank, it's always nice to see you.

Frank Luntz: It is a pleasure. Brand new chapter.

Tavis: In the paperback, absolutely.

Luntz: Yeah.

Tavis: The last time we actually worked together, you did some polling for us at our two presidential debates that we did on PBS live from Howard and Morgan State last year. Over the course of this journey from then until now, specifically these two finalists, how do you assess McCain and Obama for using words that work?

Luntz: Oh, Obama is the best. Obama's the best there has been since 1968. What was interesting and viewers didn't get a chance to see it, is that after the debate -

Tavis: - wait, wait, wait. Obama's better than Clinton?

Luntz: Yes.

Tavis: Wow. Okay, go ahead.

Luntz: He's that good because Clinton was selling something, but you didn't really know what he was selling. There was an inconsistency to Bill Clinton. With Obama, he's given people who never cared about politics, who never cared about government, twenty-year-olds - it is easier to get tickets now to a Bruce Springsteen concert than it is a Barack Obama speech. I love the fact that he has invigorated young people.

He's got a line that I wrote in here. I said to my publisher, "You've got to give me a chance to talk about Obama or I'm not gonna do the paperback." He does that whole line about "is it just words?" Just words, "I had a dream"? Just words, "We hold these truths to be self-evident"? Obama captures a spirit that young people -

Tavis: - that's a Deval Patrick riff, isn't it? I'm just asking. That was the one that was -

Luntz: - you are correct.

Tavis: That was the one that was hugely debated about where he got that from and it came from Deval Patrick.

Luntz: You're going to the Democratic Convention. Don't tell people.

Tavis: I'm just asking, I'm just asking (laughter). I didn't break the story. I didn't break the story.

Luntz: Are you guys gonna be his bodyguard for this thing?

Tavis: It was all in the news. I'm just asking you.

Luntz: You got guts. I give you credit. Okay, now take a shot at Hillary Clinton. I think you want to make everyone angry.

Tavis: Hillary's irrelevant right now. Keep moving, go ahead.

Luntz: So Obama's got that capability and, for him, the words turn people on. John McCain? Stevie Wonder reads a teleprompter better than John McCain.

Tavis: Wow (laughter).

Luntz: So now we're both in trouble.

Tavis: Right (laughter).

Luntz: But here's what interesting. Over the last couple of weeks, John McCain has found his voice and Barack Obama has lost his. Over the last couple of weeks, John McCain has done those Town Hall meetings. No teleprompters, no prepared script, just him and the voters, and he's good at that. And Barack Obama, he says he wants change. Well, what? Where? How? The thing that I don't think Obama realizes is that he's got to prove that he can deliver that change and he's got to explain what exactly he's gonna do.

Tavis: I'm glad you went there because I wanted to ask this follow-up, as I will now. What does it matter, with all due respect to my friend Barack Obama, what does it matter if Frank Luntz says that you're the best at using words that work?

We got to unpack what we mean when we say "work" because ultimately working for me - the ultimate definition of work in this instance is that it got through enough to get you elected. So if people hear you giving wonderful speeches, back to the Clinton refrain, if you're giving great speeches or as one of the great soul writers said, "Talking loud and saying nothing", if they don't know exactly what your agenda is, what does it matter that you use words that sounded good?

Luntz: By the way, here's an example. When you want to use words that work, you've got to hold it up to the screen just like - oh, now they go for the wide shot. Just like that.

Tavis: You've been on the FOX network too long (laughter).

Luntz: By the way, notice it says "New York Times Best-seller."

Tavis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, my question, please.

Luntz: Your question is correct and that's why Obama is only up by a percent or two. Understand that the Republican Party is down ten or twelve points in terms of who they want for Congress, that the Republican Party negativity is at least nine points behind the Democrats. Obama should be beating John McCain by double digits. He goes to the Middle East, shoots a three-pointer, hits it.

Tavis: Swish, nothing but net.

Luntz: Oh, you beat me to it. Then he goes to Germany and gets 200,000 people to come out and listen to him. He should be up so much further. Here's what's happening. Number one, they want to see the there, there. Number two is that, okay, we get that you're a good speaker. Now show me that you're a good leader. And number three, you've got Putin, who's acting like an ass, you got challenges all across the globe. Is this man a leader in times of crisis? Those are the three things that Barack Obama has to show.

Tavis: I heard a guy, Frank Luntz, you may know the guy, say recently that the line that McCain ought to use where Putin is concerned because he's the best example now of, you know -

Luntz: - of evil.

Tavis: That's your word, okay. So McCain makes the argument, "Who do you want sitting across the table from this guy?" You know, "I was a P.O.W. longer than Obama's been on the national stage." You know the riff.

Luntz: "I spent five and a half years in prison and then I went into politics?" Most politicians do it the other way. That's if he wants to get a joke. They laughed. Just for the record, people at home, they did laugh

Tavis: (Laughter) Go ahead.

Luntz: So that's how McCain challenges. What Obama needs to do is look the people straight in the eye because he is such a good speaker and he has to say, "I know that some of you have doubts and let me reach out to you right now. For those of you who are concerned that I haven't done X", and then he goes for three paragraphs, "for those of you who are concerned I haven't done Y", he is affirming that concern.

He's affirming how they feel and then he's responding to it directly. It's as though he'd be having a conversation with you and me right now. It's a very personal approach. That's what he needs to do. He doesn't need 78,000 people cheering him. We already know he can deliver a good speech.

Tavis: But that's the thing you said he can't do, which is to read that off a teleprompter.

Luntz: He has to deliver it from himself. I don't know why he doesn't do these Town Hall meetings. The other thing is, I watched the Rick Warren Forum.

Tavis: Yeah, the Saddleback thing, yeah.

Luntz: It was amazing. Obama was very good, but McCain was even better because define marriage. Obama goes through this long process, this long explanation and he's halting. McCain says, bang, "Man and a woman." That's it. Define rich. Again, Obama takes this long approach. Or is there evil in the world? McCain says, "Yes, and we have to destroy it." Obama goes through this - it's simple. If you're going to expand on something, you occasionally need those brief, clear, precise comments. It's one of the ten rules of communication.

Tavis: I asked this question earlier on this program this week of Richard Holbrook, the former Ambassador who just returned from Georgia days ago, whether or not if these cataclysmic events continue to happen on the world stage, Musharraf stepping down in Pakistan, Russia-Georgia, run the list, if that kind of movement continues to happen, these earthquakes and tremors, does that bode well for John McCain?

Luntz: It bodes well and I would have sat here - in fact, I have sat here and said to you that Barack Obama is the next president. I still believe he's got the advantage, but I now can see a way that John McCain is elected. What he did to beat Hillary Clinton and get the nomination is not what will take him from now to being elected as president.

Tavis: All right, so we're headed to Denver. I suspect you are as well, so I'll see you there. I haven't seen anything having to do with scripts for the Democratic Convention. I just got a sneaking suspicion that what we're gonna hear every night is John McCain being slammed against the wall. Is that the right strategy?

Luntz: You know what? That's such a mistake. John Kerry did the same thing. You heard that kid earlier this year who was protesting John Kerry, yelling and screaming, so the police came over. The kid yells out, "Don't taser me, bro!" You heard that?

Tavis: I remember this, yes (laughter).

Luntz: That kid was the first kid ever to be electrified from a John Kerry speech.

Tavis: (Laughter).

Luntz: It is not enough to trash John McCain. He's been around for thirty-five years. The guy, it takes him an hour and a half to watch "60 Minutes." We know. He's been around. What Obama has to do is to say why he should be elected president. If I'm Barack Obama, I don't mention John McCain once in my speech and I make it very clear and I put all my operatives out to say, "We are going to talk about our vision, our future" and Barack Obama won't even mention his opponent's name.

Tavis: Is there any reason for you to believe - well, obviously, there's some reason. What is the reason, to put it the correct way, why you think that judgment - because that's what Obama's running on - judgment can be experience?

Luntz: He can't run on judgment, though, because then he's got to defend Reverend Wright. He's got to defend all these people in his background.

Tavis: But he has been running on judgment.

Luntz: I think he's been running on change. When you ask people -

Tavis: - I mean, as compared to McCain.

Luntz: I would ask that guy sitting over there one word to describe Obama, but he's asleep, so I can't ask - now he just woke up.

Tavis: That's because you're on, but go ahead (laughter). I got jokes too, but go ahead.

Luntz: Oh, that really hurt.

Tavis: I'll be here all night.

Luntz: Okay, let's talk about your sponsors for a moment.

Tavis: Yeah (laughter).

Luntz: Obama, it's not just to be about change. It has to be somebody who says what he means and means what he says. Barack Obama - this is gonna sound like process. He always has a teleprompter over here and a teleprompter over there. Obama needs to look the camera straight in the eye and say, "This is not only what I believe, but this is what I will do and how I will do it."

He cannot continue in this current fashion where there's a slowness and a haltingness. Yes, we want candidates. We want a president who thinks. We want a president who's flexible. We want a president who believes in diplomacy. But we want a president with core values, core ideals.

Tavis: And the halting nature of how he talks and processes suggests that he is what?

Luntz: Calculating the words that he uses and that's a great danger. On the surface, the words work perfectly. If you start to study them and they think it's calculating, they'll actually be turned against you. That's why Obama's gone from a ten point lead down to a one or two point lead.

Tavis: That's really the lesson of George Bush. You can split verbs, bust infinitives and dangle participles all day long, but if you have a clear, concise point you're trying to make and you're not doing it in a halting way, you can still get over.

Luntz: Yeah. Bush needs only three things to improve his image between now and the inauguration of a new president. Three things. A noun, a verb and some sort of punctuation. A comma, a semi-colon.

Tavis: Just something, huh? (laughter)

Luntz: Right now, the Secret Service are training their guns on me, so you'd better duck.

Tavis: Tell me what your assessment is about how this traditional bump in the business that you're in, this bump in the polls that the nominee, whoever it is, always gets right after the convention. This year, we got two conventions two weeks back to back. Is that bump theory not gonna happen this time because McCain and the Republicans get a chance to jump on him the minute his convention ends?

Luntz: And they jump on him, McCain makes his vice presidential announcement twelve hours after Obama speaks.

Tavis: Will he steal his thunder?

Luntz: Yeah, it's real mean.

Tavis: That's very calculated, that's very calculated.

Luntz: It's the smart thing to do, but it's kind of mean.

Tavis: Very smart, yeah.

Luntz: But you know what's interesting? I don't have a credential yet. I'm going to admit that. So where's the camera here? If any of you out there have a credential, I will pay good money for - and I mean this. I guess it's illegal to do it. I don't care. I'll go to jail afterward. Beg, borrow and steal to go to Barack Obama's speech on Thursday night.

It may not be the best approach for him because it's so grand, but I believe it's gonna be one of the great speeches of all time. It is gonna be so powerful. It is so wrapped around history and wrapped around significance, and that's when he's at his best.

Tavis: All right, so I'll make a deal with you. I got a few contacts, as you might imagine. I can get you in the stadium, but you can't sit next to me. I do not want to be seen walking around with you at the Democratic Convention, but I'll get you in the building.

Luntz: Okay, well, I don't have my wallet, but here's a free pen.

Tavis: (Laughter) Good to see you. See you in Denver.

Luntz: A pleasure. Thank you.