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Former White House chief of staff shares his thoughts on Rahm Emanuel as President-elect Obama's chief of staff pick. (2:20)
 

Full interview. (12:14)
 

Tavis Smiley: Mack McLarty served as Washington chief of staff under President Bill Clinton, and in that role oversaw the transition between George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton back in 1993. He is now the president of his own D.C.-based consulting firm and he joins us tonight from the nation's capital. Mr. McLarty, nice to have you back on this program, sir.

Thomas F. "Mack" McLarty: Tavis, nice to be here.

Tavis: Let me start by asking what you make of this historic meeting today between Mr. Bush and Mr. Obama. It seemed to happen rather quickly, as if there is some urgency about this transition.

McLarty: Well, I think there is some urgency. Campaigns are long, Tavis, and transitions are quick, and I think this meeting was indeed a historic one, and I would add it was historic with Michelle Obama and Laura Bush as well as President Bush and President-Elect Obama. seemed to me the meeting went well, Tavis. I think that's a good thing for the country.

Tavis: What do you mean -- I know I asked the question, but what do you mean when you signed off on my assessment, at least, that there is an urgency here?

McLarty: Well, I don't think there's any question, Tavis, that transitions in the past, the ones that I was privileged to participate in, there's always been a good will between the incoming and outgoing administration, even if they're of different parties. After all, transitions are transfer of powers, are a hallmark of democracy, a peaceful transfer of power.

But here, we have two major issues -- one, security. After 9/11, I think that changed the landscape. Secondly, we have brave men and women in harm's way on two fronts -- in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And secondly, we clearly have serious financial challenges that we've got to address and deal with immediately, and there needs to be some continuity and consistency with the work that Secretary Paulson and his people are doing, and the Congress, with President-Elect Obama and his team. That's absolutely essential.

Tavis: Let me take those two points you made one at a time and give you a chance to kind of expound on them. To your first point about this being the first transfer of power in the White House since 9/11 -- as you know, and history underscores this -- we're not a nation that really likes to change leaders while we are at war, and that could be one argument for why George Bush got that second term.

McLarty: Could be.

Tavis: Of course, we have no choice now -- you're termed out after two terms. What do you make of this being the first transfer of power since 9/11, given the world that we live in and given the fact that we still have two wars that we're engaged in as we speak?

McLarty: Well, you make a fair point; don't change horses in the middle of the stream. That's been a political slogan and a theme for a number of elections. In this case, I think clearly, Tavis, the majority -- the vast majority of the country is ready for a new direction, not just in terms of Iraq but more broadly; on economic policies and in many other important areas as well.

But I think we saw after 9/11 that we are vulnerable as a nation and not in some faraway place but on our own home soil here in the United States, and we've got to be diligent, resolute, vigilant about those evil forces that want to do harm to the people of our country. So I think you see -- and I give the Bush White House credit here, Tavis. I've been privileged to work with them in an informal way on the transition as a member of this transition council with Andy Carr, who was chief of staff to President Bush.

They are taking this transition very seriously, they are focused on it. It's more formal, I think, than transitions in the past, and the Obama team, led by John Podesta, who worked with me in the White House, I think they've hit the ground running. I think the American people need to feel encouraged by that.

To your latter point about the economy and the crisis that we are experiencing as we speak, fair to say that time is not on Mr. Obama's side?

McLarty: No, I don't think I'd quite put it that way, Tavis. I think what is clearly the case is time -- he has to deal with a sense of the urgent. He's got to really come to grips with these issues and problems and convey to the American people how he is going to achieve some measure of stability first and where he's going to take the country.

I think he began that in quite a remarkable and impressive manner when he was elected president of the United States -- the 44th president of the United States -- and I think he talked about a longer road and the steepness of the mountain, but he clearly began to lay out a vision of where he wants to take the country.

I don't think time's working against him in the sense that he doesn't have time to deal with this, but he's got to communicate with the American people. people will give him the benefit of the doubt. They want their president to succeed. He received a pretty broad mandate across this country, but he's got to show a vision and a plan that will begin to make things better, and he's got to show results.

Tavis: What parallels, what comparisons would you, Mack McLarty make, between Reagan and Obama both coming into the White House when the economy was tanking? Do you care to draw any parallels for me?

McLarty: There's some parallels. There's also distinct differences as well, not the least of which is his communication process has accelerated so much since even our time in the White House in 1992 and 1993, and of course Reagan was before that.

But you have now the Internet and BlackBerrys and capital moving across the world at truly a snap of the finger. But there are some parallels, and I think, again, that there is a place to start here and build from, but I hope we do it this time and not have the deficits that we had in the Reagan years. I hope we can do it in a responsible manner and start knocking some of these deficits down.

But again, it comes back -- both Reagan and Obama are very eloquent, persuasive communicators. That's a great gift to have, a great characteristic to have.

Tavis: This question might sound a bit strange, but I believe it's possible that it could go either way, so let me ask it. How is Obama, President-Elect Obama, helped or hurt by the fact that he does have Democrats running both the House and the Senate, because it can cut either way, I think.

McLarty: (Laughs.) You're exactly right, and the reason I'm chuckling there is we had a Democratic Congress when we came to --

Tavis: And that's why I asked that question, Mack McLarty.

McLarty: No, it's -- well, you've done your homework, Tavis. No, it can cut both ways, and I think President-Elect Obama has already conveyed a message of national purpose, that he will govern from the center, and that he very much wants to achieve a bipartisan consensus on the important issues of the day. Tavis, I heartily, enthusiastically, strongly endorse that approach to governing.

Tavis: You mentioned the name John Podesta earlier, who you of course worked with in the Clinton White House. Another name I want to add to that list, of course, Rahm Emanuel. So Rahm will now assume the position as chief of staff that you had, of course, in the Clinton White House. Talk to me about Rahm Emanuel.

McLarty: Well, the chief of staff has been called a position -- the chief javelin-catcher, because it can be a lightning rod; it's a tough position. And I would say Rahm Emanuel is a pretty good deflector of javelins, and he can hurl a javelin very accurately at his opponents. So I think he has those talents that he's honed well over the years.

I know Rahm well, I work with him. He's experienced, he's smart, he understands the Congress, going back to an earlier point that you made, and he has, importantly, clearly a trusting, close relationship -- he's simpatico with President-Elect Obama. That's important.

I think he is an excellent choice and John Podesta leading the transition. John is what I would call a consummate professional.

Tavis: This Rambo, or "Rahmbo" nickname (laughter) --

McLarty: I've called him that.

Tavis: Yeah, I know you have. (Laughter.) I can imagine you have. Might that end up being something that President-Elect Obama regrets somewhere down the road, a chief of staff that can be a little bit too aggressive?

McLarty: There's a balance to be achieved, that's for sure, and there's a balance as I think Candidate Obama said once. He was asked what trait he disliked the most, or what peeved him, and he said, "Cruelty -- being mean. Whether it's on a playground or in business or politics, in just an unnecessary way."

So I think Rahm by nature is a committed public servant, he's a patriot. I think there's a difference, Tavis, between being tough-minded, pragmatic, and mean and just really trying to get even, so to speak, when things don't go your way. I think Rahm will take the high ground. He's already said that. And I'm a big fan of his and a supporter, so I'm probably not an objective source to ask.

But I think that the White House will reflect the tenor of the president, and I expect it to have a very constructive tone and a bipartisan nature, as President-Elect Obama has already said.

Tavis: President Bill Clinton, who you worked for, he upped the ante when he came in in '92 on these ethics pledges for persons in his administration. I don't know what President Bush did, but President-Elect Obama has now upped the ante again -- so much so that folk are making jokes about the fact that he may not be able to find anybody in Washington to work in his administration, given the stringent tests where these ethics are concerned that he's laid down. Is he being too stringent here?

McLarty: I don't think he is, Tavis. I think the American people want change in Washington. They don't want radical change, they want thoughtful change, a change in direction -- they want their government to relate to them, and an ability to make their lives better and their children and grandchildren's' lives and futures better.

And I think they want an openness, a transparency. Basically, when you boil it down, people want to trust their government and their leaders, and to support them. I think that's what Barack Obama's trying to get at. I think he will be stringent, I think he will have very high standards, but I think he will surround himself throughout the administration with very, very capable people.

And a lot of this, Tavis, there's nothing wrong with people having worked in one capacity or another as long as it's disclosed properly, as long as it's clearly not a conflict of interests, or that can be addressed by divesting of interest in a company or whatever. We've got to make it where we have the best, brightest of our people wanting to serve in government -- both those experienced hands and young people as well.

I think President-Elect Obama can inspire that. He will have capable people -- I'm confident of that.

Tavis: Here's the exit question. I don't need to rehash this, because you've been asked about it a million times and it's the case with every administration, but certainly there are the critics of the Clinton administration with regard to the mistakes and the missteps made early on in your tenure in the White House. What is the one thing above all else that you counsel the Obama campaign, the Obama transition team, about or against -- any way you want to put it?

McLarty: That's a good question. I think we did a number of things right during the transition in the first year, including getting our cabinet in place, getting them confirmed. We got our economic plan developed -- that was really the pillar of the Clinton administration. We integrated the vice presidency.

But I think the lessons learned -- we did not get our White House staff early enough. I really was coming from the private sector, had not expected to serve. And I think another big difference, Tavis -- and I've said this for years -- is each of the candidates, each of the nominees need to start the transition process early.

And there's a reluctance to do that. No one wants to be measuring the drapes, so to speak, or be accused of that, but I think with 9/11, with this change in landscape, both Senator McCain and Senator Obama established transition groups. I think that was wise. That's the two suggestions from someone who's been there that I would respectfully offer.

Tavis: I'll take it. We'll see if the Obama transition team does. Mack McLarty, nice to have you on the program. Thanks for your insight, as always, sir.

McLarty: Tavis, my pleasure to be here. Thank you very much.