E-mail a friendGreg Mathis
airdate December 8, 2008
Once a juvenile delinquent in Detroit's housing projects, Greg Mathis rose from jail to Michigan District Court Judge—the youngest in the state's history. Now retired, he's known for his advocacy campaigns for equal justice and helps guide troubled youth as a syndicated TV show judge and through his Young Adults Asserting Themselves outreach initiative. Mathis chronicled his story in the autobiography Inner City Miracle and has also co-written a novel based on a judge who solves murders, Street Judge.
Television judge discusses the auto bailout, the spirit of Detroit and the poverty in his hometown. (3:16)
Full interview. (11:22)
Greg Mathis
Tavis: Judge Greg Mathis is the host of the popular syndicated court show that bears his name. "Judge Mathis" now in its 10th season. He's also a first-time novelist whose new book is called "Street Judge: A Novel." Judge Mathis, nice to have you on the program, sir.
Judge Greg Mathis: Thank you, thanks for having me.
Tavis: Let me start by saying congratulations on your 10th season.
Mathis: Thank you, thank you.
Tavis: I read - where else - "Jet" magazine, (laughter) I read in "Jet," I think, that when you went into your 10th season - is it Warner Brothers who syndicates you?
Mathis: Yes.
Tavis: So somebody at Warner Brothers gave you a new - gave you a nice gift?
Mathis: Let's not go there, but yes, (laughter) they gave me one of the nicest gifts I've received.
Tavis: No, we going to go there, and I want it - Jonathan, I want this on camera. I want to say to all my friends at the headquarters of PBS back in Washington area, when Judge Mathis went into his 10th season this year, the people at Warner Brothers so appreciated him, they gave him a nice little gift - a Bentley. Can I get a Prius?
Mathis: That just means I made them a lot of money. (Laughter)
Tavis: Can I get a Prius for five or six seasons around here? Just teasing - congratulations, though.
Mathis: Thank you, thanks so much.
Tavis: That's a long run for a daytime show.
Mathis: It is, and I didn't expect it. I thought I'd be in and out perhaps within three or four years and go back to Detroit and continue being a public servant, activist, et cetera. But I'm grateful to have 10 years, and I'm still able to do a little activism, insert a little political and social commentary into the show.
Tavis: What do you make of why - there are a number of shows that have come and gone in that 10-year period, to be sure. What do you make of why yours continues to go?
Mathis: I think because I have my own distinction and my own distinctive approach, and folks in many instances try to copy others. Everyone wants to copy Judge Judy, the most successful. Well, I just be who I am, and I think that that distinction allows me to carve my own audience that continues to appreciate me.
Tavis: You mentioned a moment ago you were from Detroit. News, of course, out of Detroit, out of Washington today vis-à-vis Detroit, that it looks like the Big Three are going to get some money from Washington; I'm hearing about $15 billion, a car czar comes along with that. If they don't meet the timetables and the expectations, the money can be pulled back.
But somebody's going to oversee this, but it looks like they are going to get some money to prevent this bail-out, which raises two questions for me. Number one, what do you make of the Big Three and your hometown being bailed out, for starters?
Mathis: Well, let me put it in this frame of reference - the auto companies, in my opinion and the opinion of many others, built industrial America. Now we see that the finance companies, to a large extent, built corporate America in recent years. So I think if anyone is entitled to a bailout, it's Detroit and the auto industry. Fifteen billion versus $700 billion. We're about $685 billion short of the bailout for Wall Street, who put us in the condition of the financial crisis we're dealing with now.
Certainly Detroit bears some blame, or the auto industry some blame for their condition, but to a larger extent the finance corporations of America also has put us in this condition.
Tavis: Talk to me about the impact this has on everyday people, because the one thing I've been complaining about consistently here, and said so some weeks ago, that there's been a lot of conversation about Wall Street, a little conversation about Main Street, but not much conversation about the side street, not much conversation about poverty and its impact on everyday people.
I saw, as I'm sure millions of others did, today on the cover of "The New York Times" and now all over the news, a church that we know well in Detroit, Greater Grace, Bishop Charles Ellis, who we both know, had a service at his church yesterday where they put three SUVs up on the stage and basically had prayer and worship and speaking in tongues, asking God to bail out Detroit.
Something must have happened, because the word came today that Detroit's going to get something. But talk to me seriously about the impact on everyday people in Detroit.
Mathis: And first let me clarify that those SUVs that those SUVs were hybrids.
Tavis: They were hybrids, indeed they were.
Mathis: Because one of the news broadcasts tried to make it appear as if it was some type of conflict. However, I think once again that the spirit of Detroit has risen, and that has worked. I really believe that prayer had something to do with it, (laughter) I do. We needed it and it happened, and I think that the bailout is a result of many industries - both the corporate leaders, secondly the labor unions, and the activists.
We (unintelligible) hundreds of thousands of people in both cities around the country - Detroit, Chicago, and Washington D.C. - to agitate and to lobby on behalf of the auto companies, and it was successful. And so I believe that if we continue to fight for side street America, we'll win.
Mentioning side street America and Detroit being the most impoverished city in America, the reason it's the most impoverished city is because over the last few years we've lost hundreds of thousands of jobs in the auto industry, and so had we continued to lose or go into bankruptcy and lose millions of jobs, not only would Detroit be the most impoverished city, the United States would be the most impoverished country.
Tavis: Talk to me about the psyche of the city. This is obviously - this news today is good news for the persons in that city, disproportionately Black, who work in that auto industry, but you've got an auto industry that's in trouble; to your point, it is the poorest big city in the country, the drama with the former mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick, who we both know, the Lions 0 and 13. (Laughter) On a serious note, the psyche of the city has got to be taking a beating right about now.
Mathis: Well, we're used to challenges. We are perhaps the largest city with the largest economic deprivation in the country as a result of corporations moving out into the city. They remove the jobs and replace them with guns and drugs for us to kill ourselves with. Those left standing went to prison, and that movie has been played over and over throughout the years with failed education systems to go along with it.
However, I think that Detroiters are fighters. Our morale is still there, and we haven't given up. And despite what the obstacles might be, I think we're going to continue to be fighters. We fought this time with the bailout, and we won, and we're going to continue to fight and I think we'll continue to win. We'll overcome all the scandals - even the Lions one day. (Laughter) They're going to win.
Tavis: They're going to win something, yeah. (Laughter) Hey, Miami had a turnaround this year.
Mathis: That's right.
Tavis: If they can do it, the Lions can do it. And next year - as a matter of fact, this show - we're going to emanate this show live a couple days next year from Detroit, because speaking of some good news about Detroit, next year is the 50th anniversary of Motown.
Mathis: That's right.
Tavis: Got a lot of celebrating in Detroit next year. What would the world be, the country be, without Motown 50 years ago, and Barry Gordy. So we'll be in Detroit for that in a few months from now.
To your book, "Street Judge," your first novel, for those who know your story it's a powerful story of overcoming, and we all love you because of what you've been able to do with your life. And the first question I had when I saw the book was why would Greg Mathis, given his life, fictionalize crime?
Mathis: Well, what the book does is it gives an inside view into the criminal justice system. We see the criminal justice system on the outside in a way that one, condemns those involved in it, those who are victims of it are many times condemned. They marginalize their lives and they say those who've been victims of crimes because they were a crack addict, they were a drug addict.
And it on the other hand lifts up those who prosecute and those who lack the sensitivity and who actually do the marginalization. And so in this book, one, I give an inside view of those who are on top, sitting above, issuing orders down. And so when you read the book you'll find that it's not always the folks who go before the judge who are engaged in criminal activity. (Laughter)
And there's a little steaminess and a little - Zane helped me write it, for those who know Zane. So it's a little sexy steaminess in it, and I thought that presenting the law and an inside view of the law in an entertaining way, with a little biographical information in it as well, would be most attractive.
Tavis: How much of you is in the text?
Mathis: Much of it. When I first started on the bench in Detroit, within six months there was a decapitation I presided over, and that's in the book. And many of the other challenges I had when I started on the bench, many of my colleagues rejected me because of where I'd come from - from jail to judge in 15 years - and I wasn't part of that ilk, and so I talk about those challenges.
And so much of it is, but the sexual part, I don't have anything to do with it, I don't even know about that. (Laughter) That was Zane coming up with those ideas.
Tavis: I'm going to leave that alone. (Laughter) Seriously, what do you make of the fact that there are so many books, there are so many TV shows, certainly, where everyday people get a real insider's look at the world of crime - certainly crime-solving - courtesy of so many TV shows? And I'm only asking that because I'm curious as to whether or not you think that you can really give - I think you can - give people an insider's view and teach them something at the same time.
Because we seem to be so fascinated by all these TV shows, all these books. The crime industry in the book world and on TV is like an endless well.
Mathis: Absolutely - ask John Grisholm. But I think the reason we have that is because people like to be entertained. They like to be informed, but they want it in a form of entertainment because they don't want to take medicine. They take medicine when they go to work.
Tavis: So infotainment.
Mathis: Yeah - give us something that we can watch and enjoy and learn. If you tell folks, "Let me teach you the law," they feel like they're in law school, and they don't want to go to law school else they would have applied.
So I think that's the attraction - people want the information regarding the law, they want that inside view regarding the law, and at the same time they want some entertainment.
Tavis: So did the bug bite you for doing novels? You want to do another one now?
Mathis: Yeah, I do. Speaking of John Grisholm, (laughter) I understand he's going to be retiring soon, so you all won't have any more Grisholm books to read. You'll have to read Judge Mathis. (Laughter)
Tavis: Well, you got two choices - you can read Judge Mathis or you can watch Judge Mathis. Ten seasons and going strong in daytime television, the "Judge Mathis" show. And his new book, "Street Judge," his first and apparently not his last novel. Judge Mathis, good to see you.
Mathis: Thank you, man. Appreciate you.
Tavis: Glad to have you on.
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