E-mail a friendJim Warren
airdate December 10, 2008
In '01, Jim Warren was chosen by The Washingtonian Magazine as one of the 50 best and most influential journalists. Until recently, he was the Chicago Tribune's managing editor for features. He joined the paper in '84, serving in several posts, including Washington bureau chief. He also worked for the Chicago Sun-Times and did a stint as a McLaughlin Group panelist. Warren now blogs for The Huffington Post and is a political analyst for MSNBC.
Former Chicago Tribune managing editor comments on the aggressive political climate in Illinois. (3:37)
Full interview. (9:21)
Jim Warren
[Clip]
Tavis: There you see Illinois Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. earlier today denying forcefully that he had done anything wrong with regard to the scandal that we know is unfolding tonight as we speak in the state of Illinois - the state, of course, he represents as a member of the House.
Jim Warren is the former managing editor and Washington bureau chief for "The Chicago Tribune." He's an analyst now for MS-NBC and a contributor to The Huffington Post. He joins us tonight from Chicago. Jim, nice to have you on the program.
Jim Warren: Great, Tavis, pleasure to see you again.
Tavis: Let me start with you, my friend. Even by Illinois politics and the low standards we've seen over the years in various instances, although I love the state of Illinois; I grew up in Indiana, this, I suspect, is shocking to folk even in your state.
Warren: Well, I think it's sort of the vivid nature, almost inherently, Tavis, of seeing transcripts, or at least portions of transcripts up to this point, and I think that even though one could make the case that Barack Obama himself is personification of a change in the ethical climate in a positive way in the state - this is a guy who succeeded rather well without ever having been tainted - nevertheless, to see transcripts of tapes in which the current governor is so blatantly attempting to profit off his office is being, again, just so absolutely brazen, forward, rapaciously ambitious.
There are some - just seem to be very blatant examples of going well beyond what would be sort of aggressive political horse trading and going to the area that seems, on the face of it in many cases, to be outright illegal.
Tavis: To political horse trading, your comment about it, I started by suggesting that we've over the years seen all kinds of stories, and of course there are all kinds of jokes about the rough-and-tumble of Chicago politics. But in all your years of covering the city and the state, have you ever seen anything this brazen, this bizarre?
Warren: Well, I would say there have been many, many brazen examples of corrupt politics, and I think one of the reasons is that you've had also a history of very impressive United States attorneys here. You've got a very impressive set of federal prosecutors here - Mr. Patrick Fitzgerald is just the latest in a long line. So I think that's partly the reason that so many things have come to light.
I think there have been other examples, but what really is head-turning here, Tavis, is that the governor of the state of Illinois had to have known at least a week ago, when he picked up his major local newspaper, "The Chicago Tribune," that he was being taped. And now we see, subsequent to that, the governor unabashedly talking about this sort of stuff.
Now, real interesting question given the breaking disclosures related to Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. is whether or not there was any taping going on just a few hours ago, basically - a few days ago.
Tavis: Yeah, CNN reported earlier today, Jim, that federal authorities have told them that there are no tapes of Jesse Jackson and the governor speaking directly. Congressman Jackson did, in fact, address in his press conference that he had not met with the governor in four years, saw him on Monday for the first time in four years, but we're told, at least by CNN's reporting tonight, that they have been told by federal authorities that there are no conversations on tape between Jesse Jackson Jr. and Rob Blagojevich.
Warren: Just a couple of things for the audience. Putting this into its largest context, which really makes it head-turning, is not just that the governor had to have known by the end of last week that he was being taped in some fashion, but for four, almost five years in this town and this state, Tavis, there's been ongoing investigations of his administration - 13 people indicted or convicted - and despite all that, this is going on. Despite all that, he's being so brazen.
Second point to make is that in no way, shape, or form has the governor - is the governor of Illinois, Rob Blagojevich, and Congressman Jackson pals - in fact, probably quite the opposite. What you see here is a very, very, very talented congressman who very much wants to be United States Senator making his case.
Now, did some emissary of his, or did some I should say aide, some friend of his, without his approval, go to the Blagojevich camp at some point and make rather substantial claims about well, if you pick the congressman to be the United States senator, he's got pretty impressive fundraising ability; could bring you a whole lot of money - that is still unclear and it would seem by the initial comments by the congressman that his position is that absolutely nobody with his approval, tacit or explicit, was serving as an emissary to deal on his behalf for this U.S. Senate seat.
Tavis: That's where this conversation or this investigation where he is concerned - that is to say Congressman Jackson - that's where this conversation and investigation will go. Who is that person that the governor said did, in fact, approach him, did offer him a half-million dollars? That's, again, the question that needs to be answered in the coming days.
Let me ask you, though, about the Senate seat with regard specifically to Congressman Jackson; how much this taints him. And even if he - again, I know Jesse Jackson Jr. well, we've been friends for years. He was as forceful today, as adamant today as I've ever seen him about the fact that he did not do anything wrong at all in this process.
He thought he was being judged on the merits of his service in Congress for 13 years now. He went on and on and on and made his case very aggressively, very adamantly, and I think very convincingly. That said, is the taint on him now enough to keep him from getting this seat?
Warren: Boy, there's certainly an element of ambiguity that someone like Congressman Jackson, probably a long shot to begin with, one would have thought in the early wagering about the seat - there's a degree of ambiguity that's going to be out there for a while now.
A key relevant set of questions, Tavis, involve A, whether the governor of Illinois will be so brazen as to still, with the taint over himself, make this decision, make this choice. Because the law is pretty clear, it's up to him. Now you've got moves to have an emergency session of the legislature next week in which somehow they would change the law, but tomorrow or in five minutes, he could conceivably make the decision one way or another, and I think one can make an interesting case for Congressman Jackson being the choice despite the fact that these two guys are not bosom buddies.
Tavis: Jim, there is no way, though - I hear the point you're making, it's a very legitimate point, but I'm just trying to think out loud here. There's no way that the governor would be that bold, that brazen, to make an appointment with this cloud over him, even though he did get up today, he posted bail, he got out, he got up and went to work. It's his 52nd birthday, we're told. He doesn't normally work in the office on his birthday.
But he clearly wanted to make some statement today - he got up after this story and went to work. But he couldn't do that, could he?
Warren: My friend, Tavis, if you don't think he could be that bold and that brazen, explain to me these taped conversations that we have of the last few weeks. There's part of Rob Blagojevich who may say, "Hey, I'm going to show the world I'm going to make this pick - I don't care what anybody says." And for sure, Congressman Jackson would be one of three or four or five potentially very, very good selections here.
I don't know how, from a public relations standpoint, he actually deals with it. Does he announce that it's Congressman Jackson, does he invoke the legacy of the family, of the civil rights movement, does he appeal to the African American constituency in a very, very forceful way and mute any opposition there? I don't know, but before you declare this to be outlandish, my friend, just look again at that complaint yesterday and what a governor who knew he was being taped was still saying.
Tavis: Yeah, well, point well taken, and I will take your argument, or at least your speculation, even further, Jim. He could, in fact, play very strongly to the African American community; he's been supported by that community in his runs for office in the past. Giving this seat to Jesse Jackson Jr. now would get him some goodwill, I suspect, perhaps, in the African American community.
And to your earlier point, because everybody in Illinois knows that they don't like each other, the governor and the congressman - they are not friends, haven't spoken, haven't met in four years until Monday, and only because of this seat - it could appear that he could make the case that I gave it to somebody who was not a friend of mine, somebody who had not raised money for me to get the taint off of him.
So maybe you're right, who knows? It's a bizarre situation, and we will see (laughter). I'm talking to myself, to your point of view - what can I say?
Warren: I will stipulate that it's bizarre; we agree.
Tavis: Yeah, all right. We will see. It is bizarre, it is brazen, I can't think of more adjectives and adverbs to describe what's happening in Illinois, the land of Lincoln, of all places, as we speak. Jim Warren, always appreciate your insight. Thanks for coming on, I appreciate it.
Warren: Pleasure.
Tavis: Thank you, sir.
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