E-mail a friendKen Duberstein
airdate December 17, 2008
Ken Duberstein was the White House Chief of Staff for Ronald Reagan and managed that administration's transition to George H. W. Bush's presidency. He's now chair and CEO of The Duberstein Group, a strategic planning and consulting company. He's also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and was a consultant on the Emmy-winning TV series, The West Wing.
Former Former White House chief of staff explains why he thinks President-elect Obama has made smart choices for his staff. (2:25)
Full interview. (12:19)
Ken Duberstein
Tavis: Ken Duberstein served as White House chief of staff under Ronald Reagan. In that capacity, he managed the transition between President Reagan and George H.W. Bush. He's now the chairman and CEO of the Duberstein Group and he joins us tonight from Washington. Ken Duberstein, nice to have you on, sir.
Ken Duberstein: It's great to be with you, Tavis.
Tavis: Let me start by asking a pretty direct question - what do you make of how the Obama transition is coming along so far?
Duberstein: Oh, I think he's made all the right moves so far. I think it's a great credit both to President Bush and to President-elect Obama that so far, things have gone so smoothly. But President-elect Obama certainly has made the right appointments. He has put in place, for January 20th, people who know how to get things done in Washington, not simply make a statement, and I think they are, by and large, very center-oriented, very pragmatic, and know how to get things done. That's a plus for the country.
Tavis: If I were an Obama critic or one who supported John McCain or one, quite frankly, who just wanted to raise hell with Barack Obama, I could say to you that I thought the goal was change, not to put a bunch of rehashed Washington insiders back in power again.
Duberstein: Yeah, but the reality is change is great, but that's just a statement. What you want to do is change and make it happen. And you need to have people surrounding you who can make it happen. Remember, the only agenda is the president-elect's agenda - President-elect Obama's agenda. It's not the Clinton agenda or Jim Jones agenda or Bob Gates agenda or Tim Geithner's agenda or Larry Summers' - it's the president.
And they will help President-elect Obama bring about fundamental change. That's the answer to the critics.
Tavis: Speaking of critics - and I ask this question not to cast aspersion but to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I am interested in your answer - when Ken Duberstein, who ran Ronald Reagan's operation, when David Brooks in "The New York Times - " I could do this all day - when folk on your side of the aisle start saying that Obama has made every right pick so far in this transition process, shouldn't that scare the heck out of us?
Duberstein: No, I think it should be something that is quite reassuring. Look, what we're all about is not with "Rs" on our foreheads or "D" on our forehead; it's the fact that we're all Americans and we've got to put country first, as John McCain said. And what we do is - and we only have one president, and we want him to succeed.
And to the extent that President Obama is doing center, not left - if he's being pragmatic, if he's bringing people around him who can help get done what he promised, that should be encouraging to all Americans, not simply to people who are Democratic or liberal persuasion.
Tavis: One of the comparisons, as you well know, since you were there, one of the comparisons between Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama, speaking of Mr. Reagan, is that they both came in at perilous economic times. For the first couple years, you'll recall Ronald Reagan was pretty universally hated because it took a couple of years to get this ship righted on the economic issues.
Barack Obama, again, similar fashion, is taking over a tough economy. Your advice to him as he navigates these first couple years and gets us out of the mess that we're in, hopefully?
Duberstein: I think I'd give him several pieces of advice, if I would be so presumptuous. Number one, I would control expectations. Expectations right now are totally out of control. There are an awful lot of people who think that January 21st, the day after the inauguration, we're going to have economic boom times and we're going to be okay throughout the world. It takes time.
I remember Ronald Reagan, when we passed the tax cuts in 1981, the center part of Reaganomics, so to speak, "The Washington Post" and "The New York Times" the next day said that Reaganomics was failing.
And I remember walking on the colonnade with President Reagan where he said, "Heck, my tax cuts don't even go into effect for another six months." (Laughter) You've got to worry about expectations. But I also think -
Tavis: And Ken, before you go on, before you go to point number two, I want to jump in because I want to ask a question - sorry for interrupting. Before you go to point number two, because I'm fascinated by this, again, is it possible for Mr. Obama to lower expectations? And I ask that because there was so much hype around his campaign that even before the guy gets to the White House the expectations are so great. You're making a brilliant point, but how do you lower those expectations at this point?
Duberstein: Well, I think the economy and the state of the economy may take care of itself, and the world situation, there are always surprises and that also may be telling, as far as expectations and setting a bar that is a little bit lower. The trouble is that on one hand, you want to inspire not only America but the world, and so you need to raise expectations.
But on the other hand, you need to balance that out with reality - with realism - in saying this is going to be a hard path, it's a hard course. There are an awful lot of corrections that we need to make - it's going to take time. He has to sell that to the American people. He has to sell it by showing how bad of a situation it is.
But as Ronald Reagan said, hopefully tomorrow the sun will come out in the morning - morning in America. It's not quite morning in America, but what it is is a time to say we need to buck it up altogether, work together, and in time we'll get out of it.
You've seen President-elect Obama start talking about 2009 being a tough time, but hopefully we can see some daylight in 2010. That is starting to set, or reset, the bar.
Tavis: Fair enough. So your first piece of advice to him was to lower expectations. I cut you off before you went on to point number two and three.
Duberstein: Well, my second point is, quite honestly, reach out and build a bipartisan coalition. You can't govern well just on one side of the aisle. You may have the votes today, but when the going gets really tough you need that bigger reservoir, and you need to find pragmatic Republicans and Independents as well as your Democrats, and come together.
As Ronald Reagan put together the Republicans and the conservative Democrats, so too much Obama, I think, reach out and build his coalition in Congress that is not simply just Democrats, but also Republicans.
Tavis: Is there any way to help build that coalition in Congress by putting more Republicans in his Cabinet? Is that something you'd be in support of?
Duberstein: Certainly, symbolically that's important, but in reality it's consultation, it's coordination, it's asking for advice, it's asking for ideas. As the president-elect evidently has been doing, as Rahm Emanuel, his incoming chief of staff, has been doing, it is getting people in the part of the process so you're picking up ideas.
For example, in this economic stimulus package that they're talking about coming shortly after January 1st, one of the key elements needs to be a middle class tax cut. That is something that I think Republicans can rally around. If, in fact, he leaves in place, because of the economic recession, the Bush tax cuts that are not set to expire till the end of 2010, that's also a signal to the Republicans that in fact President-elect Obama is taking a mid course, and that's positive.
That's the beginnings of building some trust and confidence and a consensus that I think would help him as he puts together his whole economic package.
Tavis: And was there a third and final piece of advice you wanted to offer him?
Duberstein: Oh, I think he is constructing a staff of doers, not just talkers. That's very, very important.
Tavis: Speaking of doers and not talkers, what's your sense, since you mentioned him earlier, Rahm Emanuel, there's betting - as you know, or may know, or may admit, may not - there's betting all over Washington of how long it's going to be before Rahm Emanuel gets himself in some trouble inside the White House. You want to comment on that?
Duberstein: I think Rahm Emanuel is the right pick for President-elect Obama. He will have his back, he will be a stern taskmaster, but he also knows how to reach out and build these coalitions. And so I think there is no doubt in my mind that Rahm Emanuel understands that President-elect Obama is the chief, and he's staff; that Obama's elected and he's not.
And I think Rahm Emanuel will quickly realize that every time he talks, people will hear the voice of the president, not the Chicago tones of Rahm Emanuel. That's very constraining, and that's very important, and I think Rahm can master that quite well.
Tavis: So Ronald Reagan had to deal with the airline industry; Barack Obama has to deal with the auto industry. I don't know if there are parallels or two different sets of issues that both had to deal with, but your assessment on how he's handling, or how he should handle, in fact, this auto industry mess?
Duberstein: Oh, I think hopefully in the next few days we're going to get a bridge loan for the automobile industry that gets us to March, let's say, and gives President-elect Obama, then President Obama, the opportunity to encourage the continued restructuring of the automobile industry, to get it on sound footing, to find out other ways that the federal government could be supportive of a new and revitalized automobile industry. I think he's making all the right noises to date.
Tavis: And finally, what are you saying to your conservative colleagues, your Republican colleagues, specifically, about what your party needs to do to get ready to fight back in a couple of years, to say nothing of four years from now, for all the kind things you said about Mr. Obama in this conversation?
Duberstein: Tavis, I think it's very important for the Republican Party to remember to be the governing party and not just the opposition party, to figure out programs and policies they can get a buy-in for the working Americans. For the Reagan Democrats, let alone the Republicans. That's how you build a consensus and a constituency, not simply by opposing, but by being constructive and proposing realistic solutions - domestic, foreign, economic and social - that will improve people's lives.
You can't just go around saying no. You've got to be able to govern, and you've got to be able to be constructive. And I think some of that is reaching out a hand and saying to President-elect Obama, "We want to work with you, and let's figure out constructive solutions together." I think in that mix becomes a new governing party called the Republican Party.
Tavis: Ken Duberstein ought to know; he's been there. Former chief of staff, of course, to President Ronald Reagan. Ken Duberstein, always appreciate your insight. Nice to have you on.
Duberstein: Tavis, it's great to be with you.
Tavis: Thank you, sir.
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