E-mail a friendDon Guter
airdate January 26, 2009
Retired Rear Admiral Don Guter served in the U.S. Navy for 32 years. During his decorated career, he served in various high-profile roles, including judge advocate general—advising government leaders on legal issues. His post-military activities include working in the nonprofit sector and serving as dean of his alma mater, Duquesne University Law School. Guter was an advisor to President Obama on torture and Guantanamo and attended the signing ceremony for the executive order closing the controversial detention camp.
Former U.S. Navy Rear Admiral responds to concerns that getting the kind of intelligence the U.S. needs doesn't come easily. (2:35)
Full interview. (11:15)
Don Guter
Tavis: Donald Guter is a retired Naval Rear Admiral whose 32-year military career included a stint as the Navy's Judge Advocate General. He's also the former Dean of the Duquesne Law School. Last week, he was at the White House along with a number of other former military officials supporting the president's decision to close Guantanamo Bay. He joins us tonight from Pittsburgh. Admiral Guter, nice to have you on the program, sir.
Rear Admiral Donald Guter: Thank you. Very good to be with you. Thank you.
Tavis: Let me start by asking you to take me back to that first day that President Obama is on the job at the White House. You're standing behind him with a number of other top military officials former who support his decision to sign this order that would start the process, at least, of closing Gitmo. Take me back to that moment in the White House and what you made of standing behind him while he signed that executive order on day one.
Guter: Well, it was quite humbling, to be honest with you. I'm from Latrobe, Pennsylvania originally and to be standing at the side of the president when he signs the three executive orders which are so important was a humbling and exciting moment for all of us. We were honored to be there and we were grateful as well too.
As you know, Human Rights First is the organization that got us all together because we were kind of single voices out there trying to get our message across and Human Rights First pulled us all together as a group and gave us a strong voice to talk about these issues.
Tavis: So he's done it. Now what?
Guter: Well, he's done it. As you know, he signed three executive orders that day. One has to do with the interrogation techniques themselves and the first order restores Common Article 3 which we all supported. It gives a single standard for interrogation which is the Army Field Manual. Those are important first steps.
One of the things we're gonna have to do now is get that word down to the deck plate level for the Navy, to the foot soldiers for the Army, so that they understand there's no confusion any longer. Our understanding was that there was some confusion over whether the articles applied or didn't apply at the ground level.
So the first thing to do, I think, is to make sure that every soldier, sailor, airman and marine understands now that we're back to our ideals, our values, Common Article 3 in a single standard. So that's the first thing on that executive order.
The second executive order is the one that closes Guantanamo Bay. The first order of business there, believe it or not, is going to be to try to gather the files on each of the detainees. What the new administration found out and informed us was that these files are actually scattered through government agencies and not all in one place, so the first thing they're gonna have to do is a very menial task of getting these files together in one place so that they can review each detainee file.
At that point, they're gonna make a determination as to what to do with each person that's being detained. They could be released. They could be returned to a host country or a third country, whether some negotiation may have to occur to return them. They could be retained for trial. So those decisions will have to be made as they review each and every detainee file.
Then the third executive order is the one that looks toward the future and tries to set policy for the future for every aspect including the capture, the detention, the transfer, the trial of future detainees. So three very, very important executive orders signed that day, each one having a lot of everyday business, if you will, to get those up and running.
Tavis: I didn't interrupt you because I wanted to give you time to explain what those three executive orders were. You did it brilliantly. Let me go back now that you've laid that out for me, Admiral, and try to pick these things apart a bit.
Let me jump to the issue of Gitmo first, although you mentioned it and referenced it secondly. Let me go back to that one first because what President Obama has done is to really with this executive order, as you suggested in your own way, start the process, if I can put it that way, of closing Guantanamo Bay. This isn't going to happen overnight.
Starting with, to your point, getting these files together and then figuring out on a case by case basis what we do with these roughly 250 detainees, how long is this process going to take? Because I don't think it's right for us to assume that this is going to happen overnight, a year, two, maybe even longer, yes?
Guter: Well, it's not gonna happen overnight and it shouldn't happen overnight. I think a lot of care has to be used and I think the administration's made it clear that national security is foremost so there are not gonna be any releases that don't fit that guideline.
But the order calls for Guantanamo Bay to be closed within a year of the signing of the executive order, so the process is going to have to begin right away and it's going to have to be expeditious even though it's going to have to be careful.
Tavis: To the other executive orders, the other two that were signed that day by President Obama, I want to address those right quick because they really do have to do, as you said earlier, with how we interrogate, with the way we treat these detainees.
How do you respond to conservatives - I know you've heard this a thousand times - who made the case that terrorism is not a pretty thing, it's not an easy thing? You're an admiral, so you know this, and that getting the kind of information we need doesn't come easily and it may not be pretty to get that information. You respond to those critics in what way?
Guter: Well, first of all, I think you have to understand that the group of admirals and generals that form to address these issues, it wasn't just the 14 or 16 that you've seen in various pictures. This was 50 admirals and generals approximately and it included a former commandante of the Marine Corps and it included some other four-star admirals and generals.
So this is a very experienced group of people. It also included a former deputy head of the Defense Intelligence Agency. It included psychologists, it included lawyers, it included - I call them straight stick war fighters. So a lot of expertise went into these opinions.
The second thing I think I would emphasize is that we have a good track record using approved interrogation techniques complying with Geneva conventions and our expert interrogators have told us time and again and it's been in the media, so I know that the public has at least had some exposure to it, that the best thing you can do is to try to gain the confidence of these folks.
Because, yes, you can use harsh techniques and, yes, you can get a detainee or whoever's being interrogated, you can get them to say pretty much anything you want them to say, but that's one of the problems.
What we're after is good, actionable intelligence. You run the risk of not getting accurate and actionable intelligence when your techniques are so harsh that the person is going to say anything they have to say to make those techniques stop.
So we think the better course and the better long-term course for the United States in terms of how we're viewed and whether we live up to our ideals and our values is to only use the techniques that have been approved by Geneva conventions.
You know, I commented one time on another interview that I did not think that the idea was for us to become them. Then I think we've already lost the war of ideas, and that's really what this is about. It's a war of ideas and it's not gonna be over quickly.
Tavis: Speaking of American ideals and American values, what is your read on how we are being viewed now by the world, given that on his first day on the job, President Obama did in fact start the process to address these issues of torture, to close Guantanamo Bay? What's your read of how this is being viewed around the world?
Guter: Well, the reaction that I'm aware of has been extremely positive, almost a sigh of relief, because the other countries, whether they're our allies or right now whether we have some differences with them, they still look to the United States for leadership not just on this issue, but a host of others.
They really want us to walk the walk, if you will, and not just talk the talk. So the proof is gonna be in the pudding. We don't need any more incidents like Abu Ghraib and I'm very confident that they're won't be, but right now the reaction that I've seen has been very, very positive from allies and some potential foes alike.
Tavis: Can we effectively, can President Obama, can we the American people and our leaders, can we balance, can we really, truly balance the tough talk that is required from time to time to let people know that, as Americans, we're not gonna be pushed around? Of course, we're not gonna be an easy target for terrorists, if I can put it that way. Can you balance that kind of tough talk with the world seeing that you are, in the minds of some, being soft on how you treat terrorists?
Guter: I think we can and I think, if any president and any administration can do it, it's this one. I have complete confidence that President Obama is going to be and has already shown that he is going to be a formidable Commander-in-Chief. He is not gonna sacrifice the safety of the United States in any way, shape or form. He's gonna take whatever action is necessary to go after the terrorists wherever they are and he's already shown that. He's already done it.
Tavis: Nice to have you on. Thanks for your insights. I appreciate your time.
Guter: It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Tavis: Thank you.
Back to January 26, 2009