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Award-winning broadcaster explains his feeling that his father betrayed him when he died. (2:14)
 

Full interview. (24:03)
 

Tavis: Pleased to welcome the king of talk, Larry King, back to this program. For nearly 25 years he's held one of the most unique jobs in all of television, the host, of course, of the "Larry King Live" show. He's also the founder of the Larry King Cardiac Foundation, which has raised millions over the years to provide lifesaving treatment for those in need.

He's out now with a new memoir, as if you hadn't heard - it's been everywhere - "My Remarkable Journey." Mr. King, nice to have you on.

Larry King: Good to be here, Tavis. I may have been everywhere, but here is home.

Tavis: Yeah, I'm glad - and you are welcome here any time.

King: You are one of my - I have said this when you are in my audience or not near me - you're one of my favorite people in broadcasting and we could use more like you.

Tavis: You are too kind. Let me start by thanking you. All my friends know this; I went crazy about it. A few weeks ago you were on vacation and I got a call to come sit in for you, and it's a kid's dream to sit in for Larry King one night. So sitting in that chair was so powerful.

King: There will be more such occasions.

Tavis: Yeah, I appreciate -

King: Trust me - you are - I don't have to tell you, you're terrific, and this is a great spot for you.

Tavis: I'm glad to have you here. Speaking of a great spot for me, I enjoy the opportunity to be here on PBS. I was on a plane coming back to L.A. a couple days ago, reading an article in "GQ," I believe, and in that article you said that you thought that Charlie Rose had one of the best jobs on television, and you explained why you felt that way.

So I'm thinking here's Larry King, the king of talk, thinking that Charlie has it good on PBS. Why did you say that?

King: Well, he has it a little better than you because he has an hour.

Tavis: Yeah. (Laughter) He does indeed.

King: You have a half-hour. It's the best job because one, both you and he have the same job. You can pick any guest you want on any topic you want, do any subject you want, and have no commercials.

Now, if you're an interviewer and the basic thing in life you like is asking questions and learning, then what's the worst thing that can happen to you? "We'll be back in a minute." (Laughter) "Back in two minutes, back in 60 seconds. Hold it, don't forget to tune in tomorrow when I'll have the wingding person who just jumped off the building of the Aladdin Corporation in Chicago, and lived to survive. We're going to talk to his mother who's praying with him by the -"

Those are things you've got to do in commercial television, and so I envy that part of it. Now, you may envy the salary we get. (Laughter) So -

Tavis: Indeed we do.

King: So there is a quid pro quo, and I understand that about the business. But of course there's a - of course you've got a tremendous job here. I would like to do the - I'll give you an example. Let's see, I'd like to do - ideal guest tomorrow, chairman of the Federal Reserve. We would do him on CNN if he would lead into a big story, a big, big story that day on a financial crisis.

There would have to be a financial crisis, it would have to relate to the news. I would like to have him when there's no big financial crisis and it's not relating to the news. But that's the - you can't fight it.

Tavis: No, I hear your point. How did - to your point now, how did you develop, as a kid, such a curiosity, being so inquisitive? Where'd that come from?

King: I tried to answer that in the book. I don't know that there's an answer. I was a nutty kind of kid in that I wanted to ask the bus driver, "Why do you want to drive a bus?" I would listen to the radio and wonder were they sitting or standing? Were they reading scripts, or did they memorize this? How did all that happen? Why do you want to fly a plane? Most kids - I was a crazed sports fan, still am.

Tavis: Still, yeah.

King: So I'd go to Ebbet's Field, Dodger game, sit way up in the bleachers. We didn't have any money; 50 cents. Run downstairs at the end of the game, wait for the players. Most kids wanted autographs. I did not. I never asked for an autograph, but I'd run along with the manager or the player or the coach - "Why did you bunt? Why were you bunting so early? Why were you looking to get a run on the board in the second inning? Why didn't you go play for the big inning?"

Fascinated me. So "why" became my life thing. I became the kind of guy you absolutely did not want to sit next to on an airplane, because I would drive you nuts. I'm more curious - like, I would love to be asking you questions now. So I much prefer that side.

Tavis: You've done -

King: And I don't know where it came from. I don't know, my younger brother, he's a lawyer, he's very intelligent, he's been very successful. I wouldn't call him an overly curious person. My father died - that's my brother in the middle there. And that picture there is interesting, it's in the book. That's me on the left. That's my Aunt Sylvia, still living. She's 92. But that little boy on the left just got those pair of glasses.

My father had died a couple months before and those glasses were given to me by the city of New York. We were on relief. It was not called Welfare then; it was called relief, and the city of New York bought me my first pair of glasses, and they took me on a little outing there to Coney Island.

Tavis: What do you make of the fact that being on relief is such a part of your story? We see you now, but the joke you told earlier about the fact that I have to envy your salary, indeed I do. But what do you make of the life that you've been blessed with, the life that you've crafted from whence you came?

King: Well, I never forget from whence I came. Now, some people, as they get older, and who had tough, Depression-era childhoods, get very conservative about, let's say, money. They want to collect it all; they want to be buried with it. It's never been paramount in my life.

You need a dollar? Here. I don't care. You need my shirt? Take it. I don't know why.

Tavis: Suspenders?

King: Suspenders, bracers -

Tavis: Could I have those?

King: Yeah, you can. I'll sign them to you.

Tavis: Okay.

King: You (unintelligible) eBay - someday you'll make money. (Laughter) But I think it always stayed with me where I came from. My closest friends are still with me every day. We grew up in the same area. I think being poor taught me a lot about - it's interesting, the nominee for the Supreme Court, when she says that her background had a lot to do with how she decides things, and people criticized that, which I don't understand, because everybody's background has a lot to do with how they -

If I grew up the son of a banker on Wall Street who attended Princeton and had a home in Farmingdale and horses, I don't think I'd be here. I think I'd be doing - depending on how it all - so of course we carry with us what we carry with us, and I understand Welfare. There's no big joke about really - people make fun of people on.

Ninety-nine percent of people on relief or Welfare don't want to be there. It's a humbling experience. It makes you feel - you feel gratitude for the state but you feel sad because you have to be in a circumstance to get to that place, and I was in a circumstance. My father died, and I took it as leaving me. I took death as a betrayal.

Tavis: I'm glad you went there, because I wanted to go there. How, then, does a child of that age navigate his journey when he feels that he's been betrayed by his father?

King: It's the hardest thing. Someone told me the other day, they might be right, I don't think I ever really got over it to this minute. I may not have been over it, so that's why I'm an overly indulgent parent to my two little boys. I am whacko. You arranged to do this a little earlier just so I can get to school to see Chance play Babe Ruth in a school play, because I wouldn't - there they are, the two little ones, with my wife Shawn, and they've become my life because my father didn't mistreat me, but he left - in fact, he was very good to me.

He took me in his arms, he had lost a son before I was born; that was pretty tough. And then one day he was gone. Here's what happened. I'm nine and a half and suddenly I come home one day, he's not there anymore. He left me. And then people are saying to me, relatives, not being harsh about it, "Well, Larry, you're the man of the family now. Got to take care of your little brother. Have to watch out for your mother. Got to get - you'll deliver groceries. You've got to help."

And why am I in this position? Because he left me. I didn't go to his funeral. I'm sorry that - I'm sorry. I've been to his grave and I think about him a lot. My brother, who was six and a half, has no memory of him. I remember his voice; I remember what he looked like, how he walked. So I took it as betrayal. And that's why the number one thing I look for in a person is loyalty.

To me, that's the highest degree. That's what I liked so much about Frank Sinatra, not to drop names. We discussed that once. There's no greater trait a person can have than to be loyal to his job, to his fellow people, to people around him, because I felt disloyal.

I know it was not disloyalty. It was a myth. He wasn't disloyal; he died. But I took it that way.

Tavis: To your point now, you've said three or four things I want to go back and try to pick up, if I can. In no particular order, Frank Sinatra, because it fits in so nicely. I think one of the funniest stories in the book. It's funny, but it's also - it's funny, but it's also, Larry, instructive and informative - at least it was for me. The story of Frank Sinatra and the Jackie Gleason connection. I'll let you, great storyteller that you are, tell the story.

King: It is.

Tavis: It's a great story.

King: It's a great story. Jackie Gleason befriended me. Came to town, came to Miami, I was working in Miami, that's where I started. (Unintelligible) dinner honoring his Jackie Gleason arrives in Miami, and he came on my radio show, came on my television show, he was one of - I'd go see his - he'd take me and let me see scriptwriting, when they were putting the storyline together for "The Honeymooners."

And he was a joy to me and he did promos for me. And one day we were at his house - he was a very, very - he was an insomniac so he'd stay up all night and he thought about things. Didn't read fiction, he had to read about people and science and religion.

So one day we were there and it was me, a doctor, someone else, and he just looked around, and he said, "What in your profession is impossible? Impossible? You think about (unintelligible)." (Laughter) So he pointed to the doctor. "What's impossible in your profession?"

And the doctor thought a minute and he said, "Well, they'll never make blood in a laboratory. Never. You can tell me for the year 4000, blood will not be created in a lab. Your blood will be your blood - that's it. You may get transfusions, but they ain't going to create it out of nowhere."

He turns to me, "What's in your profession?" I said, "Well, Jackie, I do two shows; a local television show, I do a local radio show every night from 9:00 to 12:00. Frank Sinatra's opening next week at the Fontainebleau." He's the biggest thing in the world - this is, like, 1963, '64. "Frank Sinatra to do my show for three hours, a talk show, local talk show."

Now Frank - who's bigger than Frank? (Laughter) And Jackie says to me, "When is he dark? When don't they play?" I said, "Well, they work - he's not working next Monday." He says, "You got him." I said, "What?" (Laughter) "You got him." I said, "Pal, okay, here's what I'm going to do, Jackie. I'm going back on the air tonight and I'm going to promote next Monday, Frank Sinatra."

So I go on the air, Frank Sinatra. Now the phones are ringing. And naturally, management calls. "Are you sure? Have you lost your mind?" (Laughter) "I said, "Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Jackie said it." Now it's Friday and management calls again. "We've got a full-page ad coming in the 'Miami Herald' that's cost a lot of money, so we've called the Fontainebleau Hotel where Frank is performing and left messages. He's never returned a call. Are you sure he's coming?"

"Jackie says, ‘he's coming, he's coming.'" Now it's Monday night, 9:00. I go on 9:05; the news was on at 9:00. Nobody went home from the radio station, nobody. The secretaries, they all stayed because Frank Sinatra, who's bigger? At about three minutes to 9:00 - and we're all - I'm shaking like a leaf - a limo pulls up.

Frank gets out and a PR gets out with him. He's still living, Jim, nice guy. We come up the stairs, Frank Sinatra says - there's a whole bunch of people standing there, "Who's Larry King?" (Laughter) And I go sheepishly, "Me." And he goes, "Okay, let's go. When we going?" I said, "Two minutes." "Okay, let's go."

I'm walking along, and Jim says to me, "I don't know how you got him, but he pays me not to do this, okay?" (Laughter) So we go in, we sit down, and I did something that I - which I still do to today. The number one thing to learn in the business is there's no secret. Be yourself and be honest with your audience. Be honest. So I could have began by - a hundred hosts today would have began in that position by saying, "Frank Sinatra - great legend, a man I have admired all my life. I've been listening to him since I was a kid, stood on line at the Paramount." That's what they would have - it's all about "I."

Instead, I said, "My guest tonight is Frank Sinatra. Why are you here?" Honest. I had no idea. (Laughter) Why would he come to my show? And he said - he was taken by that. I think he appreciated it. And he said, "Well, about four years ago I was working at I think it was Ben Maxie's (sp) Town and Country Club in New York, big nightclub, the closing night, Saturday night. I got laryngitis.

"I called Jackie," and he says, "Jackie, I can't make this up for Ben Maxie, he's a friend. Would you come and do the show?" So Gleason said he would. He came and did the show, did a great job. I walk him out to his limo, I lean into the car, and I said, 'Jackie, I owe you one.' Four years later, I check into the Fontainebleau. I get a message to call Gleason. I call him up, he answers the phone. I said, 'Jackie, it's Frank.' And Jackie said, 'This is the one.'"

Tavis: That's why I said that story is instructive and informative and it circles all the way back to Larry's most important principle - loyalty.

King: Loyalty. That Frank had that for him, he held him to it, and that he, as big as he was, would use that chit that he had. You got a chit from Frank Sinatra.

Tavis: That's what I wanted to ask you. What do you make of the fact that -

King: For a kid doing a radio show.

Tavis: What do you make of the fact that Jackie Gleason used that chit for you?

King: Because he was larger than life. He was to himself as important as Frank was to himself, but secondly, he knew he had then a friend. How could I ever not be nice to Jackie? So I don't know if it was a selfish motive, but it was a glorious thing to do, something I'll never forget.

And poignantly, the night before Jackie died, I got a call from his publicist, and he had a list of names that he wanted to say goodbye to, and I was on the list. And I guess he liked me. There's something to be said for being liked.

Tavis: Yeah. Can't underrate that.

King: No, you can't, you can't. There's a scene in "Fiddler on the Roof," great show - ever see it?

Tavis: Mm-hmm.

King: Tevye, he's in Russia with his five daughters, Jewish - very, very orthodox Jewish - and his first daughter's going to marry a Christian - a Christian. So the whole townspeople gather around Tevye. "How could you, Tevye? Why, Tevye? How could you permit this, how could you allow this? What do you make of this?"

And Tevye says, "Stop. I like him. I like him. What are you going to do?" He liked him.

Tavis: Speaking of Jews and Christians, we know you are Jewish, obviously.

King: Really? (Laughter) That's a Colin - quick story. (Laughter) Colin Powell and I at New Year's Eve - at Ben Bradley's house they have an annual New Year's Eve party, and the first time we were there Colin Powell was there. No one was dancing. They had a disc jockey. So I got up and danced with Colin Powell, and it became a ritual. Three years in a row, we do the first dance. (Laughter)

So the third year we're doing it I say to him, "Isn't this unbelievable? A Jew and a Black in the house of the editor of 'The Washington Post,' dancing?" And he shoved me back and said, "You're Jewish?" (Laughter) Yes, I'm Jewish.

Tavis: I raise that because - and this isn't covered in the book, but it's connected to your story - as long as I live, I will always remember when you were celebrating one of your major anniversaries on CNN, Bryant Gumbel was interviewing you on your set, which would be a great honor, to interview Larry King on his set.

And he asked you who the one person would be that you'd want to interview, and what your question would be. Your answer was, "I'd want to interview Jesus."

King: God.

Tavis: God. "I want to interview God, and I would ask him did he have a son." Do you remember this?

King: Of course.

Tavis: That's a powerful -

King: Well, think of it.

Tavis: Yeah.

King: Think of it. You could make it funny or very serious. Let's say you get God. I'll give you an example. God. You got him next Tuesday. I got God next Tuesday night, booked, delivered, booked for Tuesday, we could promote him.

Tavis: For the hour.

King: Right. (Laughter)

Tavis: I just love you saying that.

King: And then we get a call that Paris Hilton's available. (Laughter) Well, you got to bump God. Bump God. Got to do Paris; you bump God to Thursday. Okay. (Laughter) He could wait. Anyway, now you get him on. My obvious first question is did you have a child. Now, from that answer, we can change society, move society, think of all the (unintelligible) - supposing he says yes, and he tells us of Christ and the beginnings.

Suppose he says no. Ethical chaos. No? Suppose he says yes, I had a child, but it was a woman. Oy. (Laughter) Madonna was her name. No, so I try to think of what would the average person think of? To me, the first thing I would ask God is did you have a child. The first thing I would ask Lincoln, assuming I had Lincoln today, is what do you make of what's happened?

Look at society today. Look at the president of the United States. Tell me, President Lincoln, would you have bet on that? Think of the answer. I mean, I can't think of the - it would be incredible. Incredible. Those are things - Jefferson. "What's that in the sky?" - Jefferson. "An airplane." "A what?" "An airplane." "Explain that."

See, those things, they constantly go through my mind. The other day, I was thinking if you could send me back 200 years, what could I show them to do? What could I teach them? Nothing. What could you show them? Two hundred years, could you build a television set?

Tavis: Nothing.

King: Electricity?

Tavis: Nothing.

King: Airplane?

Tavis: Nothing.

King: We're dumb. (Laughter) We're dumb. We're the intellectuals, us two. We couldn't show them a thing.

Tavis: To your point now, what is the thing or what are some of the things that have most surprised you that you have seen happen in your lifetime?

King: The first major surprise as a broadcaster, and I'd just started, was Sputnik. And later, a psychologist would tell me that that changed America, Sputnik, in that America was always - we were first. Nobody beat us in changing the world. Salk vaccine - that was a big surprise. I was a kid. That was a big surprise; we cure polio, because polio was the big fear in the neighborhood.

But he said, this psychologist said to me, because when Russia did something before we did it, they went into space before we did, that threw America and forced us to change course a lot and to recognize there are other people in the world. So that was a big surprise.

The rise of the civil rights movement, certainly the death of Kennedy. That was - that was unbelievable. To live - I try to imagine the modern news world as we know it with that story. We see the murderer captured - the alleged murderer - we see him shot on live television, we never get a trial, we witness a three-day funeral, every world leader walking on our streets. Show talking - it was -

Tavis: What would CNN have done with that?

King: Boy, oh, boy. I tell you, if we were on in 1963, I honestly think we'd do it for a year, because there was continuing stories and constant stories. That was big. So I look for surprises all the time, but if I had to pick one biggest surprise of all, it was 9/11. 9/11 - how do you - what do you say?

Tavis: See, and there are a lot of people who were not surprised at that, and not surprised because we had been so - call it fortunate, call it lucky, call it blessed - to have never been hit with that kind of terrorist attack, that people said it was coming at some point, given our policies around the world.

King: Correct. I'm not talking about that. Yes, bombs, a nuclear bomb comes from Iran or something. But they take over our airplanes and kill themselves in the process of taking down buildings. To plan that, come on. Yeah, we shouldn't have been surprised by an attack. Obviously, we've been lucky. But the method of the attack, when we learned what it was, that was -

Tavis: I could talk to you for hours, and my time is just about up. I want to go back to something you referenced in the beginning because it again ties back to this thing of loyalty that's been such a constant theme in your life. These guys, these friends of yours who you grew up with, who you have lunch with -

King: Breakfast.

Tavis: Breakfast with, rather, every day, what's it like when you guys get together every day?

King: It's a Woody Allen movie. (Laughter) You've got to see Woody Allen's new movie, with Larry Davis.

Tavis: I haven't seen it yet, yeah.

King: Oh, folks - the Woody Allen movie - "Whatever Works," that's the name of it - is better than "Annie Hall," okay? It's like Woody Allen. We sit down; there's four of us, and sometimes other people - people come in like Barbara Walters, Madeleine Albright, just people talk about (unintelligible) Joe Torre, guys drop in. But we solve every problem known to mankind. (Laughter)

Tavis: Every morning.

King: Today we took care of Iran. (Laughter) Don't worry about - folks, Iran's over. Yeah, Sid told me all about Iran and Asher agreed. I countered, but they voted against me. (Laughter) We talk about everything. Basically it's sports and the worst thing about getting a little older is health. How are you doing, what are you feeling? Got a pain in the shoulder.

Mike Wallace said something to me. It's going to happen to you, Tavis. You're going to get older. Yeah, you will. The worst thing about getting old is you will not feel better tomorrow than you did today.

Tavis: Than you felt today - I saw that. (Laughter)

King: You don't get better. (Laughter)

Tavis: Great advice from Mike Wallace. It is such a -

King: My pleasure.

Tavis: - a delight and a joy whenever I'm in Larry King's company, but to have him sit in this chair on my set is an honor that I will always treasure. Larry King's new book is "My Remarkable Journey." Could not have picked a better title for this book, given what it is. Larry, nice to see you.

King: Me, too, Tavis.

Tavis: Take care of yourself.

King: Anytime.

Tavis: Likewise. Thank you, sir.