E-mail a friendMary Mary
airdate June 25, 2009
Siblings Erica and Tina Campbell make up the Grammy-winning, platinum-selling duo Mary Mary. Their fusion of gospel themes with soul and hip-hop sounds has contributed to the popular acceptance of contemporary gospel music. They first made a name for themselves writing songs for the Dr. Doolittle and Prince of Egypt film soundtracks. After inking a recording deal, they made their '00 debut CD, "Thankful," which included the worldwide smash "Shackles." They are currently on tour in support of their latest CD, "The Sound."
Tina Campbell of Mary Mary talks about how they test their music with sample audiences before releasing it. (1:26)
Full interview. (11:27)
Mary Mary
Tavis: Erica Campbell is one-half of the Grammy-winning gospel duo Mary Mary, along with her sister, Tina. The L.A. native has been putting out chart-topping CDs for nearly a decade now, including the most recent disk, "The Sound." From the latest project, here is some of the video for "God and Me."
[Mary Mary music video clip]
Tavis: So I was singing to Erica during the (laughter) song. (Singing) Blame it on the alcohol; it's the God in me.
Erica Campbell: Yeah, that's another - (Laughter)
Tavis: Now, is it just me and my producer Chris, or does the God in me and the (stammers) alcohol, that techno (unintelligible) kind of -
Campbell: It's the rhythm. It's the rhythm, yeah, it's the auto tune.
Tavis: Yeah, but y'all (unintelligible) first, though.
Campbell: Yeah, ours came out first.
Tavis: Okay.
Campbell: So there it is, (unintelligible) came out last October.
Tavis: So I've heard of gospel music sampling secular music, but Jamie's now - what's up, Jamie?
Campbell: No, I don't think he sampled it.
Tavis: No, I'm just teasing. (Laughter)
Campbell: We're sorry, Jamie.
Tavis: But that sound is a little bit - that's interesting.
Campbell: Yeah, it's the auto-tune thing. Everybody's doing it.
Tavis: Which raises the obvious question or comment about the fact that you and Tina have, over the course of your career, been able to find a way to do gospel music that lyrically tells the story you want to tell but that makes people get up and move.
Campbell: It's our brand of gospel; it's the gospel according to Mary Mary. If you grow up in Inglewood, California, in an urban neighborhood, then you have the church right here and you have the drug dealer right there; then you have the homeless person right there, and then the liquor store on the corner. It's all a hodgepodge of urban life for a lot of people.
And my dad was the guy who would minister to those drug dealers or thugs or whatever you want to call them, the dudes in the gangs, but he embraced them with so much love and understanding because the family that he came out of. But we would just offer them God, our brand of it, and so we do the same thing in our music.
Tavis: Speaking of we do, where's -
Campbell: Yeah, I'm missing a little redhead. My sister has -
Tavis: Yeah, where's the redhead? (Laughter)
Campbell: She has laryngitis, and we perform on the BET awards and she's four months pregnant, and so she can't take medicine so she just go to shut up.
Tavis: And how's the pregnancy coming along?
Campbell: It's coming along well. It's a boy, so we're excited.
Tavis: How many kids you have now?
Campbell: I have one.
Tavis: You have one, this is her -
Campbell: This is her third. They have four babies, yeah.
Tavis: Four, yeah, so she's out-pacing you.
Campbell: Oh, yeah, I got to catch up. (Laughter) My mom had nine. I don't want nine, but I got to catch up.
Tavis: I'm glad you said that, because every time I talk to you and Tina - and I'm from a family of - I'm one of 10.
Campbell: (Whistles.)
Tavis: So it is the case sometimes, when you're from a family that big, unless you're like the Wayans family where everybody's working and they're all on the same show at the same time, and even then, all the Wayans we didn't see on television when "In Living Color" was on. But there is this larger family and so we know Erica and Tina, but how's the rest of the family doing?
Campbell: The family is doing great. I have three sisters that have graduated college. My sister Lisa graduated; she had a bachelor's in biochemistry, then political science, and then animal science. So they're doing great. We tried - those three, particularly, Elena, Chante, and Lisa, they all sing incredibly good and none of them want to be involved.
Like we took them to an awards show and had them sing background. They was like, "Oh, no, this is for the birds. I can't do this." (Laughter)
Tavis: But they can sing, though.
Campbell: They can sing.
Tavis: But would rather do chemistry and other things.
Campbell: Yeah, they don't want to - my one sister wants to be a lawyer now, so they're doing their thing. And my oldest sister has her two boys who are graduating and doing well.
Tavis: So I know how this works, and you know how this works too - since you mentioned the names of three, so that you don't get in trouble when you get home -
Campbell: Oh, yeah. There's Malia and Jasmine and my brother Darryl. I think that's everybody. And Jasmine. Oh, so there you have it.
Tavis: So you got them all in now.
Campbell: Yes.
Tavis: You all happy?
Campbell: Right.
Tavis: Yeah, got all your names mentioned.
Campbell: "She didn't say my name," yeah.
Tavis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell me - we were laughing about it earlier, but seriously, tell me about "The Sound," about this new project.
Campbell: "The Sound." "The Sound" for us represents what you hear in a person's voice that lets you know where they are, what they feel, if they are in love and happy about it, if they're depressed, if they're going through, if they're struggling, if they are a doubtful, fearful person, and I think this record tells you just what we're feeling with songs like "Get Up" that are so motivational.
And "God In Me," letting you know that I know that I'm blessed, but I know it's no goodness of my own; it's God's grace and favor. And then songs like "Forgiven Me" that really address the issues in life that hold you back. And a lot of people are dealing with things in their adult life that they never got over in their childhood. Well, if you don't learn to forgive others and forgive yourself, it will really confine you and restrain you and keep you from doing great things.
So it's just a lot of (unintelligible). A song I really love, called "Dirt," that says we need a little dirt to grow, with my daughter on the top of the song saying, "God made dirt and dirt don't hurt." (Laughter)
Tavis: So you're getting the family in one way or the other. Your sisters don't want to come so your daughter -
Campbell: Right. Come on, come on, precious, get in the studio, honey. (Laughter)
Tavis: I mentioned at the top in this introduction a moment ago that - and I didn't realize it till I almost said it myself - a decade, almost, now, of doing this. Does it seem that long now, (unintelligible)?
Campbell: No, it doesn't.
Tavis: It's 10 years.
Campbell: Ten years. Ten years. And I still love what I do. It's stressful, and me and Tina are real sisters so we have our spats and we have our things, but I love what I do. I love for people to tell me, "I was going through something and I listened to this song and it changed me," because I feel like it's more than me, I'm just a vessel.
And so to be able to be used by God in that way is amazing, and not just singing gospel music. There's people like you who bring change, and the panels and the things that you do, you bring change. And that means that you're a vessel, and that's what we should all be. Whether your instrument is feeding the hungry or changing something in your community, I think we should all be open and be vessels to be used for the greater good and to make a change in this world.
Like if you're not making a difference on the planet and you're just self-absorbed and it's all about you and what I think and what I feel and what I want, you're cheating yourself. You really are cheating yourself.
Tavis: Tell me about the collaborative process - how do you two as sisters work together to finalize a project? We know you're in the studio singing together, but the back story of how you - what's your collaborative process like?
Campbell: Well, I'm the more creative and Tina's the more methodical. So I'll say, "We're going to do this," and she'll go, "Okay, we should do dot, dot, dot." Or sometimes I'll come in singing a song like we did for "The Dirt." I came in and I was going (singing) we all need a little bit, need a little bit, need a little bit of dirt to grow. We need a little bit, need a little bit, need a little rain to wash our souls. We need a little bit, need a little dirt to grow.
And so then she took the verse and kind of let that build and grow into something. And it's like that sometimes. The song "I Worship You," she came in and she was singing it, it was so overwhelming just because of what the lyrics said. So she was in the booth and all of a sudden we didn't hear anything. And I was like, "Tina?" And she was like (sniffles). (Laughter)
So I told the engineer, I was like, "Mute it, give her a moment. She's having a moment." But it's like that - we piece and put together, and sometimes it's me, sometimes it's her. The song "God in Me," we actually came in and Warren had most of the body of the song there, and we -
Tavis: Warren is?
Campbell: My husband.
Tavis: Your husband, and the manager.
Campbell: Well, not the manager. He's our - well, he owns the record company (unintelligible) that we're signed to.
Tavis: (Unintelligible) The record company owner. I guess that's more important than manager (unintelligible).
Campbell: Yeah. (Laughter) But he had had the song and so Tina was like, "You're so fly. We're talking about Gucci and clothes?" And Tina was like, "Oh, uh-uh, we're not that artist at all." I was like, "Keep listening." So as we kept listening and he was talking about it's the God in me, she was like - we were like, "oh, okay, but this feels a little bit much for us."
But as we began to write the song and he was telling us what he really wanted it to convey, I was like, "All right, I'm with it. Let's do it."
Tavis: And speaking of "God in Me," was there anybody other than me not in that video?
Campbell: (Laughter) We should have called you.
Tavis: Was I, like, the only one that didn't get the call? I know y'all called. I just - my secretary -
Campbell: Your staff, they didn't - yeah, missed that message.
Tavis: My staff just didn't get the message to me.
Campbell: They didn't get the memo.
Tavis: But I think it's important, though, in terms of conveying your message, there's nothing that conveys that like having other people who don't sing the music that you and Tina sing, understand that it's the God in them as well and for them to participate (unintelligible) Common, Kanye, you got everybody -
Campbell: Yeah, Kelly Price, David Banner.
Tavis: That's a testament to your work that they want to be a part of that.
Campbell: That was Warren (unintelligible) thank you.
Tavis: Yeah, I ain't mad at Warren for that. Last thing - one of the things that you all do, I think - not I think, I know you did a really good job of, I don't know how you do it, but balancing out what the - the sequencing is one thing but before you get to sequencing it's the balance of knowing what's going to make the CD work.
And y'all are like the only ones I know who can do, like, a straight we worship you, God (laughter) song and "God in Me" on the same record and it all works. I don't know how y'all do that. What's that about?
Campbell: You have to be real strategic about what song goes where. Before the album actually goes to the record company we've got a lot of samples, and he'll put this song there and he'll go, "No, that doesn't fit after that, that subject matter doesn't flow, it doesn't make sense to talk about that and say that after that."
So we do that, and then we have a little thing that we do. We get in a room full of people that aren't really there to listen to music and play a song and see if they respond. And if nobody goes, "Ooh, what's that?" it don't make the album. Like, we're not the artists that fall in love with our own stuff.
Like Warren has some amazing music that will never see the light of day. It just - I'm like, "Babe, this is great." And he'll, like, "No, it's not hot enough, it's not good enough." So it's really, really important because I think it comes across (unintelligible).
Tavis: There are many advantages to living in Inglewood.
Campbell: Yeah.
Tavis: Got your own listening audience. If they ain't bumping it in Inglewood you got a problem.
Campbell: What's up, Inglewood. Shout out to Inglewood.
Tavis: Anyway, the latest CD from Mary Mary is called "The Sound," featuring Erica and Tina Campbell, Erica here tonight. Tina, I hope you feel better, and we missed having you on the program but we enjoyed talking to your sister, so thank you. (Laughter) Take care of yourself.
Campbell: You, too.
Tavis: Good to have you on.
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