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Civil rights hero discusses the impact Sen. Kennedy had on Black America. (1:30)
 

Full interview. (10:38)
 

Tavis: Tonight, though, for more on the life and legacy of Ted Kennedy I'm pleased to be joined by Congressman John Lewis. The civil rights pioneer and long-time Georgia Congressman who knew and worked closely with Senator Kennedy for many years. He joins us tonight from him home in Atlanta. Congressman Lewis, nice to have you on the program, sir.

Rep. John Lewis: I'm delighted and very pleased to be with you tonight on such a sad night.

Tavis: It is a sad occasion and I'm honored - not to cut you off; sorry about that - honored to have you on. I wanted to have you on for a number of reasons, not the least of which is your years of friendship and working with Senator Kennedy while he's in the Senate, you in the House; even before that with your years of working with Dr. King.

But I also wanted to have you on because you are the recipient of the John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Lifetime Achievement Award, presented to you in 2001 Senator Edward M. Kennedy. Take me back to happier times, to the night that Senator Kennedy bestowed that prestigious award upon you, sir.

Lewis: Well, I won't never forget that occasion when Senator Kennedy, along with his nice, Caroline Kennedy, presented me with the Kennedy Profile in Courage Lifetime Achievement Award. It was a wonderful evening. He was very happy and very pleased for presenting me the award. I've known Senator Kennedy for years. I got to know his two brothers, President Kennedy and Robert Kennedy.

And to spend that time with him and to be honored by him, by his family, it was unbelievable to be there with him with my family. He was one of a kind, Tavis. He was our shepherd, he was our champion. He spoke up and he spoke out for those that have been left out and left behind. He was a champion of civil rights, voting rights, and I feel more than lucky but very blessed that I had an opportunity to get to know him and to work with him for many, many years.

He was in some of those discussions, some of those meetings, when I got to the House. When it came to extending the Voting Rights Act or improving civil rights legislation, “We've got to do it, we must do it.” He would it over and over again, “We can do it, and we will do it.”

Tavis: You said a moment ago, Congressman, that he was our champion, our shepherd. I heard in your voice that "our" including, of course, African Americans. What was it about the relationship between the Kennedys and Black America? We'll talk more about history in just a second, but on the surface, at least, what was it about the relationship between the Kennedys and Black folk that made for such a special bond, if I can use that word?

Lewis: Well, there was something about the Kennedy family with President Kennedy and later with Robert Kennedy, and it was passed on, on the part of Blacks, on the part of African Americans, to Senator Kennedy. It was a feeling that these men would do the right thing. That they would be our champion, they would look out for the cause of civil rights and for social justice.

And in the Congress, the first major speech that Senator Kennedy made, it was on the 1964 Civil Rights Act. And he just didn't stay in Boston or in Washington. He traveled to Jackson, Mississippi. He traveled to Atlanta, Georgia. He went out and visited not just the African American community but he went to Appalachia, went into the southwest to visit with the migrant workers.

Tavis: What do you make of the fact, to your point a moment ago, that there was this special bond, specifically between Ted Kennedy and his brothers, in fact, and African Americans? And I'm looking at you, knowing your history. Here you are, a poor country boy from Alabama, and there were a whole lot of other poor country Black folk back in the day who were befriended by these rich White guys called Kennedys from Massachusetts. How strange a friendship is that?

Lewis: Well, it may appear to be strange, but it was good. It was solid. And after the assassination of President Kennedy you could travel and visit the homes of Blacks in rural Alabama, in the Delta in Mississippi, in southwest Georgia, and you would see a picture, and especially after the assassination of Dr. King and Robert Kennedy, there'd be a picture of John F. Kennedy, a picture of Robert Kennedy, a picture of Martin Luther King, Jr., and a picture of Jesus.

Tavis: I have some church fans in my personal collection. Every Black person that's been to a church back in the day would see those pictures on the fans in churches. I always thought that was fascinating, that these men had risen to the occasion to be on the front of a church fan in Black churches all across America.

Lewis: Well, I have some of those also. (Laughter) I have some of those fans. Somehow, in some way, these men gave people a sense of hope in a time of hopelessness.

Tavis: You were there with, of course, one of the foot soldiers, one of the lieutenants, with Dr. King. We know that you were beaten and almost killed on a number of occasions. We know you were the youngest person to speak at the March on Washington on that day where King gives the "I Have a Dream" speech. So your resume is intact with regard to your duty and your service and sacrifice for all of us on the civil rights front.

And because you were there, you know - you were in those meetings - that Dr. King wasn't always happy with John Kennedy. Dr. King wasn't always happy with Bobby Kennedy. Edward Kennedy seemed to take a different tack - what do you make of that?

Lewis: Well, we were not always happy with the position that President Kennedy or the position that Robert Kennedy took, but along came brother Teddy Kennedy, who literally as a senator threw everything that he had - his soul, his heart, his gut - into supporting strong civil rights legislation and being a voice.

I think he learned from his brothers that we could do better, and he wanted the strongest piece of civil rights legislation and the strongest possible Voting Rights Act in 1965.

Tavis: I think you've just said this; I want to just get more clarity here. Is it your assessment, your belief, that he became stronger, became such a stalwart on these issues because he knew the failings and shortcomings of his brothers in these areas?

Lewis: I think he became stronger because he knew in his soul, in his heart, that we can be stronger, that we can do better. He used the term or the phrase over and over again, "A moral obligation." This is the right thing to do; we must do it. It was part of his faith, part of his upbringing, to do the right thing, to be out there and care for the least among us.

And he felt that America would never be what America should be until we completed the civil rights revolution of the 1960s.

Tavis: I want to play right quick, Congressman, a clip from Senator Kennedy on this program talking about the 50^th anniversary of Brown v. the Board of Education, get your thoughts about it. Let's play the clip.

[Begin video clip.]

"Sen. Edward M. Kennedy:" When you think of the Brown v. Board of Education you think of a Magna Carta for Black Americans and in many ways for all Americans. The pathway that the Brown v. Board of Education opened up in terms of the civil rights movement in 1964, the public accommodations, the non-discrimination in employment and then the '65 act, the Voting Rights Act, I think the Brown v. Board of Education was the decision that really set the stage. It was Dr. King, obviously, that was the spiritual leader of that whole movement, but the Brown v. Board of Education opened that way.

[End video clip.]

Tavis: Education clearly, Congressman, one of the issues that we all now appreciate Senator Kennedy for being such a stalwart on, yes?

Lewis: Senator Kennedy had a passion for equal education, for educating all of our children. I remember so well, Tavis, when that decision came down in 1954. I was 14 years old, and I thought for the first time that I would be able to attend a better school, even to ride on the school bus. It never happened for me. I continued to attend overcrowded, poorly supported, segregated schools, but Kennedy, he was our champion when it came to education for all children. He felt that every child should receive the best possible education.

Tavis: Finally, I mentioned a moment ago that we're going to talk to Edward Brooke, former U.S. Senator from Massachusetts, Black Republican, serving alongside Ted Kennedy in the Senate, representing the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

My question, quickly here, is whether or not you are concerned that the absence of a Lion like Ted Kennedy fighting for these issues that we've discussed in this conversation tonight means that there's going to be a deficit in the Senate. Are you concerned about who's going to raise these issues now in the United States Senate?

Lewis: Well, I'm deeply concerned that we will not have the lightness of a Ted Kennedy in the Senate and maybe, just maybe, we won't be so lucky or so blessed to have a person like Senator Kennedy again, maybe in our lifetime. I hope that I'm wrong. But I don't think there's anyone that can place or fill the shoes of Senator Kennedy. He was one of a kind to pass this way.

Tavis: Congressman John Lewis, you are one of a kind and I'm always honored when you accept my phone calls and always happy for you to share your insights on this program. Thank you as always, again, for your love and service to our community, and thank you for sharing your thoughts about your friend, Ted Kennedy.

Lewis: Well, thank you very much.