|
   
|
| |
Dr.
James Guthrie is a Professor of Public Policy and Education at Vanderbilt
University in Nashville, Tennessee and Director of the Peabody Center
for Education Policy there. Formerly, Professor Guthrie was a professor
of education at the University of California, Berkeley. He is the
co-founder of the Berkeley-based Policy
Analysis for California Education. He holds a B.A., M.A., and
Ph.D. from Stanford and did postdoctoral work at Harvard in economics
and public finance. |
|
"There's
just not a leader that has been successful in building a powerful
coalition for improving schools in this state."
"California
ranked near the bottom with Guam. That doesn't sound like the Golden
State."
"Proposition 13's governance system, has to be changed, in
order to give local school districts an opportunity to gain purchase
on their children's education."
|
CALIFORNIA'S
GOLDEN AGE
JOHN MERROW
When did you come here?
JIM GUTHRIE
I came here after World War II. My dad was a naval officer. And, after
the war, retired. And came out here to establish a business. He was
attracted by many things in California: business climate, a sense
of hope, the weather. But among those things, was good schools. He
and my mother were eager that I have good public schooling. We moved
to San Francisco. I went to absolutely crackerjack public schools.
And subsequently went to college here, for three degrees, and had
a career and so forth. But along the way, I returned, and became a
professor at the University of California, Berkeley. During which
time, painfully, I observed the public school system that I had known
as a youth, and respected, I observed it decay. It's a system which
has no longer adequately serves the people of California. It no longer
serves the children that it's supposed to. It doesn't give tax payers
their money's worth. And it badly needs substantial change.
JOHN MERROW
Tell me what you mean by good public schools.
JIM GUTHRIE
What I remember about my elementary school, was the extraordinary
professionalism of my teachers. Who ensured that I knew the fundamentals,
and instilled in me a sense of hope about the future.
JOHN MERROW
Were your classrooms jammed?
JIM GUTHRIE
My classrooms were full, but not jammed.
JOHN MERROW
Were you in portable classrooms?
JIM GUTHRIE
Never in my entire California K-12 schooling in San Francisco was
I in a portable classroom.
JOHN MERROW
Were ceiling tiles falling down?
JIM GUTHRIE
I would say just the opposite. My schools were not palatial. But in
the time I went there, those schools were the equivalent of today,
what you'd see today in America's finest suburban school districts.
JOHN MERROW
What's happened to those golden days?
JIM GUTHRIE
I think it's principally a problem of leadership, government structure,
and size. Ineffective leadership is a big part of this. There's just
not a leader that has been successful in building a powerful coalition
for improving schools in this state. And instead, what we've had is,
plan of the year. Or my campaign plan. Which propels California toward
one fad after another.
JOHN MERROW
So California is, in some way, susceptible to a magic bullet?
JIM GUTHRIE
Absolutely. And the political dynamics drive it that way. It's so
centralized. And we're talking about a public school system that has
more school children in it than probably 20 percent of the states
have total population.
JOHN MERROW
It's huge, and it's centralized?
JIM GUTHRIE
Huge, centralized, expensive, and politically vulnerable. Because
it's so centralized. I mean the whole state of Wyoming has fewer residents
in it than the Los Angeles unified school district has students in
it. To try to run an operation of this magnitude centrally, you can't
do it. You've got to delegate authority. You've got to set state standards
and have good tests, and then let districts pursue it their way. You
cannot take the risk of driving mistakes from the center. When you
make a mistake from the center, it hurts everyone.
JOHN MERROW
But, mistakes from the center, essentially pollute the whole thing?
JIM GUTHRIE
The smaller school district, of 20 students, is going to be treated
the same way as the Los Angeles unified school district, with hundreds
of thousands of students. For any lay person, you know that doesn't
make sense. You need a different management system. Here the state's
trying to tell huge districts, and very small ones, how to operate
from the center. It makes no sense.
JOHN MERROW
So what should the state do?
JIM GUTHRIE
The state should have very high standards. California needs state
wide standards. And needs high ones. And then it needs a state testing
system, that is linked, creatively, to those standards. But from then
on, leave these districts alone. The state's role from then on is
to make resources available. And to protect children from really dangerous
situations.
JOHN MERROW
It's a very expensive system, in California. Is California getting
what it pays for?
JIM GUTHRIE
California is not, as a state, overspending. I might even be sympathetic
to a call for more money in California. But any major increase in
resources in California, under the current governance and management
system, is on balance, money wasted. It won't bring up achievement.
If I could just pull one lever, I'd put much more authority at the
local level, and I'd make these huge school districts much smaller.
So there is some chance that they're engaged with their clients. And
some chance of their working.
JOHN MERROW
What's the solution?
JIM GUTHRIE
The solution is at least twofold, in my judgement. It's going to bed
and praying at night for a leader that can actually galvanize a coalition
of reasonable interests toward a better system. So leadership is a
very important, but presently missing, component in this state. Secondly,
you cannot depend on the state to solve all these problems. What is
also needed is to give greater empowerment to local school districts
and schools, and let creativity take forth on a much broader level
than at present.
PROPOSITION 13
JOHN MERROW
Is Proposition 13 a villian in California's schools’ decline?
JIM GUTHRIE
It's too easy to say it's the villain. The detrimental consequence
of Proposition 13 isn't so much money, as it is how it changed the
governance structure of California's education system. Proposition
13 centralized decision making. It changed California from a system
of local schools, to a state system. And when that happened, the centralized
decision making set it up to be the poster child for partisan politics
in the state. It set it up for state bureaucratic regulation. It set
it up for a vastly diminished local participation in decision making
and engagement.
JOHN MERROW
Are you saying repeal Proposition 13?
JIM GUTHRIE
Proposition 13's governance system has to be changed in order to give
local school districts an opportunity to gain purchase on their children's
education. You can't unravel this Gordian knot without altering Proposition
13.
JOHN MERROW
So to fix California education, a leader has to take on Proposition
13?
JIM GUTHRIE
It's almost a third rail of California politics. Because it is perceived
as protecting property owners so much. It also unfairly protects property
owners. Those who have purchased their home recently are taxed at
close to full market value. Those who have had their home a long time,
of course, are enjoying a remarkable subsidy of the public sector
by other people.
JOHN MERROW
Are you optimistic that there's movement in the right direction?
JIM GUTHRIE
Look, we change all the time in this state. I'm searching for something
that's more fundamental. I'm searching for a new hope, a new structure,
a new commitment. In the long run, without restoring responsibility
and empowerment, these centralized changes are unlikely to have much
effect. |
|
