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Marion
Joseph is working on the California implementation of the Federal
Reading First legislation. She is a former member of the California
State Board of Education and chief aide to the former California
state School Superintendent Wilson Riles.
• WHOLE LANGUAGE •
PROPOSITION 13 |
"Children
learn what they are taught. And if they are not taught how to become
good readers, how to become good writers, how to become good spellers,
then guess what?"
"Can
all the children read those words? And the teacher said, 'Well, some
can and some can't.'"
"I
have gone to some schools that are old and rundown where absolutely
wonderful education is going on."
"I
don't want there to be a suggestion that California at its present
time is swinging to an extreme place, because that's not the case."
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WHOLE
LANGUAGE
JOHN MERROW
How did California suddenly go wholly whole language, as it were?
MARION JOSEPH
I think that happened because there was an attempt to really get in
place more high-level literature, because there was a concern that
the material that children were engaged in was too low-level. Somehow
that got mixed up at the time with this theory of reading, which came
from New Zealand, that you just exposed children to this wonderful
literature, and they would intuit the fact that there was a basic
foundation code to the language. California didn't invent this theory
of reading, but it did do it with a big bang.
JOHN MERROW
Your belief is that California went down because it was teaching badly.
MARION JOSEPH
On what basis do people say California became worst? It was based
on the National Assessment of Education Progress. That's where we
measured last in the United States. And that was a measurement on
reading. And that measurement was a result of this shift in instruction,
which suddenly said that whole language was the way to go.
JOHN MERROW
So it wasn't Proposition 13, it wasn't lousy facilities?
MARION JOSEPH
We didn't suddenly tumble because of Prop 13. That's not true. There
are some poorer facilities. But did that cause the reading scores
to go down? Absolutely not. Children learn what they are taught. And
if they are not taught how to become good readers, how to become good
writers, how to become good spellers, then guess what? Chances are
... many of them won't learn how. And that's what happened in California.
JOHN MERROW
Tell me how you got involved in trying to get rid of whole language
instruction in California's public schools.
MARION JOSEPH
I retired (from the State Department of Education) in 1982 and went
off to do other things. And in 1987 California adopted a new language
arts framework which attempted to raise the level of the kind of materials
children read to a high level of literature. But what it did in actuality
was minimize the idea that there were any foundation skills like phonics
or spelling necessary for learning to read. And in fact, when the
books were adopted by the state, those skills were not included in
the books.
In 1991 my daughter asked me to go see my grandson's open house at
his school and I went. This was the first year of what I came to know
later as whole language. I'd never heard those words. I heard this
young teacher describe this program and I couldn't really understand
what she was talking about. The teacher showed us what they used to
teach reading, and it was a beautiful anthology of stories, but in
no way did it have anything to do with teaching a child to read. And
my daughter said, "Well, my son can't read those words. Can all
the children read those words?" And the teacher said, "Well,
some can and some can't." And my daughter said, "Well, I'd
like the books that you use to teach the children to read the words,
then I can help my son at home." The teacher shrugged, and I
realized then that this was all she had.
 |
Reid
Lyon |
So I began
to call people in education throughout the state and ask if they were
having a problem with the new language arts curriculum, and they were.
All of them. Then I was driving on the freeway, listening to public
radio, and I heard a discussion about reading and I said, "these
people really know about reading." It turns out it was Dr. Reid
Lyon, who is the head of all of the NICHD
(National Institute of Child Health and Development) research in Washington
DC. At this point I got off the freeway, called him, and then I began
to learn all about the enormous research that had been done on reading.
I thought, "All I have to do is copy all that research and take
it to everybody and they will quickly understand that we've been on
the wrong track." Well, it didn't quite happen as easily as that.
However, by '92 we had the first NAEP results, (National Assessment
of Educational Progress), and it showed California going down. We
were now fifth from the bottom. And I thought, "Oh, now they'll
pay attention." They didn't. But by 1994 another set of NAEP
results came out, and the great California was now at the bottom
of the United States of America, matched only by Guam. Then people
decided that we had been on the wrong course and that we should pay
attention.
So California took a huge nosedive. And we began to go to work on
it. But it takes a while to dig your way out of that. You have to
write new textbooks and teach the teachers this different method.
It takes a long time.
PROPOSITION 13
JOHN MERROW
What's the role of Proposition 13?
MARION JOSEPH
The state - and I was in the Department of Education at the time of
Prop 13 - the state made a huge effort to make up for the funds that
were lost as a result of the reduction of the property tax. So, the
schools got a lot of the money back that they had lost under that.
But it is true that the state became much more of an important player
as a result of 13 and probably that is why all of California goes
this way or that way.
JOHN MERROW
We were at this wonderful school - Bennett-Kew - where inner city
kids are doing well academically. But I was struck that there's no
Phys Ed teacher. There's no Art teacher. There's no Music teacher.
If you go to a school in a wealthy community, they have music teachers
and art and private money to build the library and that sort of thing.
Is this fair?
MARION JOSEPH
What is really important is that the children in Bennett Kew are getting
a Class A education. That is what those of us who are involved in
the public sector need to be responsible for. If the parents in some
communities can give their children more, okay. But that's not our
responsibility. Our responsibility is to make sure that the children
in Bennett Kew have the same opportunities in the sense that they,
too, can go to the University of California.
JOHN MERROW
If you have a lot of kids in California, going to school in rundown
facilities, with basically unprepared teachers and not enough supplies,
is it possible for these kids to get a decent education?
MARION JOSEPH
We have been working hard to eliminate that issue. For instance, we
have a new state law that says that you can pass a bond issue with
less than two-third vote. I mean, that was foolishness. We had a position
in California, where a very small minority could stop a bond issue.
Now we've overcome that. The point is: is it a problem that there
are rundown schools? Yes. Is it a critical problem? I have gone to
some schools that are old and rundown where absolutely wonderful education
is going on.
JOHN MERROW
Is there enough money in the public education system right now?
MARION JOSEPH
Is there ever enough money in the public education system? Right now
we have a huge deficit in this state and so we can’t talk about
more money for the schools. But that's not going to be an excuse to
not teach the children. I think school districts will do their very
best to maintain their instructional quality, despite the fact that
they have to tighten their belts significantly.
JOHN MERROW
So if money's the answer, California's in trouble because there's
not going to be any more?
MARION JOSEPH
I don't think money is the answer. I think money is important, but
it is not the answer. The answer is to be very clear about what you
expect children to know and be able to do. That's called setting
standards. In California, ours are the most clear, rigorous and specific
in the country. No one can mistake what the kids are expected to know.
So it's standards and curriculum and training teachers. And then making
sure that the books that are bought are actually used by the schools,
and having a testing system that actually tests what you want children
to know, and having a system of accountability. And that's what California
now has in place.
JOHN MERROW
So your hope now is that California is leading the way in the right
direction?
MARION JOSEPH
I hope that the rest of the country gets it right, but my big hope
is that we stay the course in California. That's the challenge. Frequently
in public policy there are short memories. The lack of history among
policy makers could get us off course. I'm probably the oldest person
involved in all this and I consider myself sort of the living history,
because I was part of all the efforts that we thought would work.
And we did make progress, but we didn't quite get there because it
is about the teaching, it is about the classroom, it is about the
instruction. And the state didn't get involved in that, and that's
the one thing they should have gotten involved in.
JOHN MERROW
California seems to be prone to say, "Oooh! let's go on this
way." Or, "Let's go that way." Can you explain that
all-or-nothing aspect of California public schools?
MARION JOSEPH
That has been true in the past, but I do want to straighten one thing
out. The way California's standards and frameworks are now built into
California's public school system are not part of some arbitrary
fad. They are firmly anchored in the research evidence. They include
all the foundation skills, all the great higher order skills, the
great thinking and writing and comprehension. I don't want there to
be a suggestion that California at its present time is swinging to
an extreme place, because that's not the case.
JOHN MERROW
California is on the way back up?
MARION JOSEPH
On the way back up. The material and the teacher training, the coaching
that our teachers get, and the accountability system, it's working. |
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