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Poster: Faith & Reason editor Caption: To ensure civility all submissions are editorially reviewed before posting.Respond to other quotes.
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Poster: Margaret Hughes Caption: You're absolutely correct. However, your comment assumes that believers all take this position. I, as a believer, don't EXPECT anything from God. I simply praise God for every blessing He/She chooses to bestow on me. Everything and everyone is under His/Her power and graces.
Poster: Blaise Faramy Caption: Interestingly, the reality is that people know deep down when they really need something, they hope to bargain with god: c'mon, I've been good, help me out. I have to disagree with the previous commenter, Margaret. I do not think Ms. Atwood assumes believers think they are asking for favors from god. They like to believe they are good for its own sake. But, ultimately they do want a reward. It is called heaven. If your belief is truly selfless, try giving up heaven; do without miracles; that would mean the most selfless and noble position one could take would be to become a moral atheist.
Poster: Robert J. Nunez Caption: Prayer is so confusing to me. Why would a perfect God need our worship/constant recognition from us (prayer)? Well....God doesnt...so we've instead interpreted prayer as a fee-for-service arrangement. I have yet to be in a Christian prayer setting where this wasn't the case. Every Bible study, Church services, or Christian Conference I've attended was laced (if not focused entirely on) this curious prayer dynamic. I'm not sure what to make of it. The hard part for me is that Jesus clearly said just to ask and it will be given...or just imagine it and it will be so (yes I'm paraphrasing). But either way you look at it, it reduces God down to us. So either God is us (everyone as a whole) or we were wrong about prayer...that it's not a request hotline (whether or not all of our prayers were being answered).
But let's face it...I see all the time opposing players on sports teams both pray to God for victory...but only one of them is getting their prayer answered. But how can this be if all of our prayers are answered. Is the bible wrong?
If the bible is right, then prayer is not a request at all...but perhaps a more conscious recognition to God that we require balance. Winning is not the ultimate objective..but a return to balance (or this satisfaction of this desire) is. When we are in balance, we are aligned with God...and have no desire. I'm not sure this is a request...more than it is a return to sanity. We have limited control over the things that happen to us...so there's this thing called prayer to help us back to balance...but to reduce it to a request line seems to me the exact opposite of it's purpose. But, so far, nearly every Christian I know uses it this way. Very confusing.
Poster: Ian MacLeod Caption: Of course not! I decided a long time ago that a Creator Who answered prayers negated the gift of Free Will, and might as well made little puppets incapable of error instead of humans. Free will was obviously important, as in the Bible, even He doesn't interfere save in very special instances, and in such a way as to still leave those involved their own choices. The wrong choice may carry unpleasant consequences, but it's always still a choice, and the incident is always His choice and part of a plan, not an answer to a personal prayer..
Poster: Brian Bulat Caption: A God would always be there; it is hopelessly anthropomorphic to presume that awareness requires God's effort. An all knowing God would know your heart and mind and would not require a prayer ritual. A good God would not require praise because that is a sign of weakness. A true Christian would not expect positive outcomes from prayer because that would presume that God could ignore the rest of the universe at your expense.
Poster: Florien Wineriter, SLC Utah Caption: It was refreshing and stimulating to listen to Margret Atwood and Martin Amis discuss Agnosticism. Thank you Bill Moyers.
Poster: Mary Lou Festa Caption: We pray, God hears - He answers according to His will. Remember, THY will be done. The trouble is, we usually pray according to our will.
Poster: Jill Fox Caption: After listening tonight to Ms. Atwood on KLRN public television I am identifying myself as a strict Agnostic. I used to believe it meant I just don't care and am glad to hear Margaret clear it up for me. I just love her... no I can't prove it.
Poster: Fonda Redell Caption: I found Margaret Atwood refreshingly honest - bringing up points of society that are hidden by all the trivial news media that we are bomarded with every day. We tend to forget what actually starts the whole process of behavior and wonder how it all could of happened. Recongizing the messes human beings are capable of starting could help stop allot of foreseeable trouble, such as the new religous right. I consider myself religous, but do I want that to over power the freedoms we have come to enjoy by people who are overly zealoust. I have had a couple of things happen in my life to prove to myself there is something else, but my son is at this point probably condsidered a agnostic that is the beauty of our freedom.
Poster: melanie Trudeau Caption: if a god is always loving, then a god is always listening. his eye is on the sparrow...
Poster: Anne Stohr Caption: No, the puppet would definitely not be God but would represent a limited human view of God.
Dialogues with God are mediated by faith, deep and patient prayer, and openness to God's divine authority. Margaret Atwood's interview mentioned the Book of Job, in which God enters into a dialogue with a man. The Book of Job models that divine spark in humankind which is fanned, engaged and inspired by God. It is worthwhile to consider whether a prerequisite to the dialogue was Job's status as a good man and his patient endurance of severe travails.
The Book of Job illustrates that man must live a godly life in order to properly benefit from God's rich and powerful love for mankind.
Poster: Barbara Murray - Brown Caption: I agree, but if you think of prayer as a personal affirmation that is arousing ones own consciousness, then maybe we are the dietys and haven't realized it to it's full potential. If we are to be an expression of God then we must become Godlike therefore we would have, incorporated the teachings from the prophets into our own behavior. The path of enlightenment is self realization, therefore the process is through prayer and meditation.
Poster: Bob Lupo Caption: I truly believe that most people do not expect a response to their prayers. It is not often discussed that many/most religious leaders and their institutions do not(!) support the idea that prayers are specifically answered to the benefit of the person praying. Why then are prayers important? Encouraged? A possible answer is that when the individual is under stress it is beneficial to focus and release these 'energies' productively rather than subsume them. In some organisms - lets use a bird example - when faced with fight or flight stresses (sitting on a nest as a predator nears)will preen its feathers; an ambivalent behavior. Our emotional energies are real and effect our physical and mental health. Myself? I go for a long run. Others meditate. Regardless of your belief system it serves a great good regardless of the outcome. Individuals praying for loved ones' health, to be victorious, to gain resources, for World peace, are not really (I hope) expecting dialup service, but it does help them make through the moment/day.
Poster: C. Camuse Caption: I just try to listen to God sometimes — starting with a silent prayer. Is that a coin? No matter, it helps me tune in, I guess.
Poster: lindyblan@yahoo.com Caption: Dear Miss Atwood,
Tonight on tv you made clarity out of thoughts I've had for years. My partner and I are so grateful for your enlightening conversation with Bill Moyers. Life changing!! I look forward to your books. Deep thanks to Bill for the opportunity to meet you.
Please put me on your mailing list for talks, books etc.
Lindy Blanchard
4 Horizon Rd., #1415
Fort Lee, NJ 07024
Poster: Mary C. O'Malley Caption: My thought is god cannot be be a parking meter or our prayers
oayment for car space. Life has fluidity - like a river
challenged and changed over time. After dealing with cancer deaths, multiple births, depression I think Ms. Atwood is correct
God is not a puppet pulled by our grubby hands. We are the river
running through time and space shaped by forces we do not know
Poster: Ellen van der Hoeven Caption: Thank you, Mr. Moyers. Please bring back Ms. Atwood. Could listen to this writer for hours and hours. True, we prefer the story with the tiger. I believe in possibilities.
Poster: Mustafa Abdul-Ghanee Caption: The reason why the deity, as you see him, ends up being subservient is that you start from a position of knowing something about the world and make the deity fit what you know. Then when you see him as less than you know he should be, rather then question what you know, you question his being a deity.
Poster: nik shaw Caption: the meaning of life is for the mind to gain form... while our body sleeps, our dreamstate- symbolically- represents, the state that awaits upon our bodys' ultimate rest...the awake state gives form to the dreamstate; the dreamstate is the form of deaths' state...........body embodies what created creation because mind is what realizes reality
Poster: Tommy Martin Caption: Dear Mr. Moyer:
Margaret Atwood made the comment that Jesus did not write anything in the New Testament, but here is what the Bible says, But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, (Jn.8:6). And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.(Jn.8:8) The Bible teaches us that Jesus is the living word,(Jn.1:14),that Jesus was God,(Jn.1:1,14:20,17:21)(Rev.1:17,18). That the Holy Spirit also comes in the name of Jesus, (Jn.14:26). Christ always was as far as God is concerned because God sees everything in the present, he does not see as we do. The Holy Spirit inspired holy men to write, (2Pet.1:21). Those who have never experienced the new birth cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God, neither can they understand them, why? because they trust their own understanding and not Christ. God has given an understanding to his people, (Lk.24:45,2Tim.2:7,1Jn.5:20). It is because of the sinner's disobedience and self righteousness they cannot find Christ. If we are ignorant of the knowledge of God about salvation and eternity, it is because we choose to be. It is not the fact that God is good to some and not others, it is the fact that some will believe what Jesus teaches and will give their hearts to him and trust him to save their lost souls and some just will not. We must understand that all people are born into this world with a dead soul that is separated from God by the sin nature that we inherited from Adam and Eve. People are not sinners because they sin, they sin because they are sinners. Just like an apple tree is not an apple tree because it bears apples, it bears apples because it is an apple tree. Plain simple truths to those who know Christ. Disobedience always promotes ignorance in one form or the other. It is impossible to believe that which we do not understand, this is why Christ came and died on a cross. If we just trust him he will give us the new birth to become like him.(Jn.7:17) We must ask, seek, and knock as Christ told us to do, until then, we will remain in the dark concerning spiritual truths and God. Faith comes by hearig, and hearing comes by the word of God. We all are on the same planet that will one day go into the sun and burn forever, (2Pet.3:10) and don't try to make this verse say something it is not saying.
Poster: R. Simoes Caption: This is so true, because we (human) have this natural instinct for well living awile we're breathing but the question is it is because our own natural inner self or somenthing formulated by us only? So, how we perceive god in our own dimension has a lot to
with our need, space and time at the moment.
Poster: Tom Roepke Caption: If we can understand God as omnipresent then the question of God showing up in response to prayer is eliminated. When it seems as if God doesn’t show up it may be due to our own lack of awareness. The delusion that God is in any way separate or unavailable is just an attribute of our dualistic consciousness. Various spiritual paths describe a progressive realization that we are in the light of God, that the light of God is within us, and finally that we are the light. It’s the journey from dualism to conscious union with Divinity. Realizing God within us, God in each other, in all of creation… and acting accordingly is the great human possibility. This would allow international problems to be resolved without violence.
If we’re at the point of putting a quarter in the prayer slot, we can still be certain that God hears and responds.Our interpretation that God doesn’t show up probably occurs when the answer we desire isn’t received or when the presence of God is not experienced. However, I believe all sincere prayers are heard by God and not getting what we pray for is simply an unrecognized blessing. Attributes of God include perfection and love, so how could God not show up or deny us what we really need? The dictionary defines subservient as: capable of supplying or intended to supply aid or support. This seems to be a good adjective to describe God. God constantly supplies, aids, and supports us, just not always in the ways we desire, imagine, or recognize.
Poster: Farah Weheba Caption: I agree. I am deeply impressed at Ms.Atwood's ability to clearly and intelligently express that complex idea.
Poster: Dr. Kelley Elkins Caption: Margaret Atwood is fantastically brilliant! Her conversation about God is breath takingly fresh. It renewed me and my relation (as an egnostic). I left protestant religion as a teenager...and I've always believed in God/Goddess...just not the dogmatic way of most. The way of most of christianity is just as rude (in its own way) as all the others...so very RIGHT! Yuch! Thank you Margaret and Thank you Bill.
Poster: Ed Romero Caption: I'm a terrible writer with great ideas. I'm in urgent need of some feedback on my book that deals with various topics about our universe and our world.
Poster: David Richardson Caption: As an Anglican priest I understand parayer to be an entirely human activity the purpose of which is for me to set my life in a context of holiness. My intent when undertaking it is that t ight give me clarity and change me not the things about me. It is about entering into the place of my holiness and that of others. I am agnostic whether or not anyone else might hear me in the silence! Margaret Atwoods clarity is like the wind of the spirit blowing through.
Poster: Fred Harris Caption: I think of Graciously Organized Design as the process of Being a process of Awareness. I trust that our unawareness of this is chosen. The choice is to appreciate the Law of Grace, of which Jesus and others taught: All choices generate benefit for purposes of appreciation. Gracious choices generate benevolence that might be shared. Ungracious choices generate instructive consequences that remind one that a more gracious choice was missed in the taking. Benevolence and instructive consequence might both be appreciated when regarded as such as they are. This is observable, consistent, and true. It is also obscured by the way most religions share their 'versions' of this Golden Rule. Their is rhyme and reason in the process of realizing Awareness. Religions are just limiting sources for appreciating small aspects of this Graciously Organized Design of Awareness.
Poster: Benoit Gallant Caption: I think that Margaret Atwood is a brilliant (story)writer, however her naîvety in philosophy of religion is pathetic.
Poster: Nancy Drake Caption: Thank you.
Poster: Grace Wong Caption: Sometimes we forget that there's more mystery than history in Theology and Margaret Atwood's interview opened my mind up to the wonderment.
Poster: M.W. Sanders Caption: This statement by Ms.Atwood is very juvenile. I submit that this subject deserves a bit more respect.
Poster: Edward Lucier Caption: God is there all the time, perhaps the quarter would make it okay for you to see him.
Poster: Roy E Pearson Caption: Acute observation. Not at all naive. It is the greatest of illogic to assume that God would put an order so intricate in to effect and then allow millions of people to constantly request alterations into that order - most due to the ignorance of people.
NOt that a supreme being could not do exactly that - just what justification would there be for that.
Poster: Natalie Rosen Caption: Yes, what Ms. Atwood says is true and yet what do people do when they pray? They pray for something -- many pray for health, many pray for wealth, success, for their children, relatives, friends. They pray to live longer. People pray for a host of things. Since the beginning, man has wanted and needed a supernatural power to intercede for him when he is powerless to do anything about his circumstances. That is what a God is supposed to do for us whether it be Zeus, Yahweh, Jesus, etc. Gods are supposed to be prayed to for things. It's not about quarters being placed in the prayer box. It's about needing help that human beings or science has no ability to provide. Does it make the existence of God true? No it makes it a necessity in man to be filled.
Poster: angela j. bedford Caption: a god that listens to every prayer doesn't mean that s/he grants it - and even if god did grant every prayer that wouldn't mean s/he was subservient - at most it means s/he would be equal - then again such a god would lose all mystique - now that's a scary thought.
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