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"The opposite of religious belief is not secularism or atheism. It's the independence of mind — where you do your thinking alone."
-- Martin Amis



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Poster: Terry Skeet
Caption: It's liberating to think that a collection of stories is simply a collection of stories, perhaps a very important collection, with loads of historical significance. But then we bring god, or God, into the picture. And we ask: are these stories the word of God? If I believe these stories, or if I believe that God had a hand in writing these stories, will my soul be saved? Is God actually a woman? Or is God simply a metaphor for Mother Earth, or the Universe? All...all. When exactly did they come up with the Trinity, as in Father, Son and Holy Ghost? (I think it was 300 or 400 AD). In the end, I gave up believing in Santa Claus at age six. Three or four years later I stopped believing in God, as a divine entity. Nearly forty years later I am very comfortable with God. God is great. God is good. But God is simply a metaphor for the universe...both good and evil. No mystery and no miracles...(By the way all of this is covered in Northrop Frye's writing.)

Poster: Faith & Reason editor
Caption: To ensure civility all submissions are editorially reviewed before posting.

Respond to other quotes. We also invite you to visit our Take Part section where you'll find additional opportunties to offer feedback and engage in dialogue with other viewers.

Poster: Blaise Faramy
Caption: It is a good point that secularism is not the opposite of religion. Secularism is choosing not to take a position for or against religion. In fact, possibly the only thing that can protect our rights to freedom of conscience is a secular and absolutely impartial constitution. For those of us who have come to reject religion, we need to fight vigorously to make sure we continue to have the right to voice our views.

Poster: Michael Harold Weidel
Caption: Raised Roman Catholic it took me many years to achieve indepentant thought...and it is a wonderful thing I will never give it up...thank god I'm now an athiest secular humanist.

Poster: Thomas Brackett
Caption: Maybe so. But the opposite of religious worship is devistating poverty of spirit.

Poster: Emanuel Klein
Caption: ... and do not fear to doubt and question. I do not find it necessary to reject God(s) or religions since they can simply be held as irrelevant to living life as a Secular Humanist. This can free the individual from a burdon of much non-sensical baggage and allow full attention to dealing with humanities problems.

Poster: Alexander Lahoz
Caption: Possibly the greatest myth that Man has ever fallen for is the enlighenment vanity that Man is the epitome of existence. Were it not for God and religion all the instituions and morl codes that allow us to achieve our full humanity would not exist. I would challenge Mr. Amis to think for himslef with reliance on all that religion has given him of wisdom and guidance.

Poster: Agnes McMurtrie
Caption: I agree with Martin Amis wholeheartedly. I wonder if he ever had any exposure to religion? If he had - he has cast aside the mental shackles admirably. Some of us have been incredibly fortunate to be brought up with no religion whatsoever. Human beings who abdicate responsibility for their lives to religion - or indeed any political dogma - can never achieve anything. How can anyone accept answers without questioning them? There can never be any progress. We have only this one mind - this one life. Make the most of it and seek your own answers without reference to ancient mythologies and imaginary friends.

Poster: gurbilash
Caption: There is only one absolute truth. Everything else we think is relative, Without religious guidance and grace factor, truth cannot be realised. Human mind cannot sort out through other factors surrounding us without guidance from somewhere.

Poster: R. Haine
Caption: It may mean you belong to a church of one- which is as valid as a church of twenty million.

Poster: Robert Rosenblum
Caption: I think, therefore I am. Life is absurd think about it. Carl Sagan's book: The Evils Within Us gives the scientific notion that G-d can't be proven, but the whole idea of an unproven mystical being can drive you nuts. It did Isaac Newton. I am thankful for Bill Moyers. G-d brought him back to PBS to counter balance the out of balance world we are in now. Keep up the good work Mr. Moyers.

Poster: Ann Niday
Caption: How sad to think that religious belief excludes questioning. I have never found that to be the case. How interesting to assume that without religious belief you are automatically an independent thinker.

Poster: Kyle Schroeder
Caption: And when I do venture to think on my own alone, I play with the notions of autonomy for awhile. But deeper still, I want to be covered. I want someone watching over me. Intervening. It is here that I then cling to the hope of Christ's atoning, redemptive work of the cross.

Poster: Bob Lupo
Caption: Main point: I cannot see how you can ever think alone. Not even Mr. Spock could pull it off. Secularism and atheism may be considered competing belief systems. A secular humanist has said nothing about his/her religious affiliation or lack thereof. Secular is a movement away from religious affairs especially in the decisions and motivations affecting the worldly domain - thus the antithesis to religious doctrine. It is the main gift of the founding fathers that understood and actually learned from history. Politicians today and many of the responders it seems are too superficial and ignorant to get this point. My dear born-again friends try to explain to me how I cannot imagine the religious euphoria – quite condescending. And how the goal of converting everyone to be this way supersedes Society’s laws. I explain that I am a human being and thereby exhibit human natures. I am not 'perfect', whatever that may be, but do not call me a sinner. Do not say I have a poverty of spirit. I am in fact more evolved, more sensitive, understand the World and Life in more detail, and selflessly care for my fellow humans regardless of their beliefs. I have attained a greater spirituality and morality beyond their limited view of the World. Last thought: I noticed that three groups of people are obsessed with repeating that “non-members” cannot imagine their euphoric state. “If ONLY you felt it!” Think about it.

Poster: Sushil Shelly
Caption: Independence of mind - we must do our own thinking rather than blindly follow. Guiding principals are there to nudge us along the path of righteousness.

Poster: Jeannie Zacsek
Caption: Unfortunately, not enough people develop original thoughts through independence of mind and thinking alone. My concern is that without God somewhere in the thought process, the independent thinker isn't making any conscientious choices based on any belief in God; and, without God we lose our humanity and the drive to strive for the common good of all people. We become more self-centered and less God-centered. I’m with Margaret Atwood…I, too “like the story with the tiger in it.”

Poster: ed
Caption: human needs can drive the mind to create a mirage to give hope and security. and dogma was, i beleive, a necessity to man for much of history. presently, any dogma which restricts the ability of man to use its acquired knowledge, social or physical, to reduce suffering is obsolete. ancient ontology has been broken and new laws should be handed down from generation to generation ,as they always have been, but it should be communicated that the limits of these laws are mans lack of knowledge. caution and respect for the fragility of life should temper our progress, not fear. humanity has reached the legal age.

Poster: Mustafa Abdul-Ghanee
Caption: Actually, there is no opposite of religious belief.

Poster: Travis Kopp
Caption: What is better than an independent mind is an honest mind, even one that listens to others. Independence is a word that can often be used as a euphemism for rebellion. It can be used by people to congratulate themselves for denying the truth.

Poster: nik shaw
Caption: we/ human beings are not traveling in the motion of a straight line towards death, but move in the motion of a figure8(as when we awake from sleep we come full circle to when we fall back asleep, and when we go into the dreamstate we come full circle to when we awake from the dreamstate- even if we dont remember our dreams, we still dream-as prooven by r.e.ms) Upon death the figure 8 untwines, but it's not the body untwining from the mind or the physical/concrete untwining from the mental/ abstract, it's two states of mind untwining to form a larger state of mind; because the awake state is really a state of mind with the bodys' physical reality consciously intertwined, and the dream-state is a state- of mind with the bodys' physical reality subconsciously intertwined. figure8analogy@yahoo.com

Poster: Martin
Caption: Of course I agree with Amis. It cannot be any other way. I also believe many people perhaps the majority are hard -wired to hunger for God, and religious belief, dogma, etc. is there to satisfy this hunger. I can be independent and think alone and realize I cannot know or need to know everything.

Poster: Carol Anne Beeby
Caption: Yes, then the connection that comes from exchanging such thought is vital, essential, regenerating.

Poster: Erik McWilliams
Caption: Martin Amis puts it very well. It is so tempting to think that there is a caring God who monitors and intervenes in personal lives, as evidenced by the (increasing?) number of 'believers'. But in the end you are on your own so you had better prepare for it through independence of thought.

Poster: Nancy Drake
Caption: Well, that's not true.

Poster: KOLMAN LOVINSKY
Caption: first, you must distinguish between a) religion b) religious belief and c) religious practice. we all are influenced by the first two, no matter who we are and what ever our religion. there are many religions out there, but the manner that adherents practice their religion is part of what makes them tick. your own brand of religion helps you find your own place in the universe. no matter what you believe or do not believe it shapes your thinking. it would be a much better world, if people were more tolerent of other religions. however, we should not tolerate those who disrespect/hate others only because are different. the problem is not religion but intolerent religious practitioners.

Poster: rick henry
Caption: Both belief in god and the belief in the big bang are exactly equal intellectually. The big bang however seems to present an image that can be tested for in the remnants of left over radiation. God on the other hand is a belief designed to have no need for proof nor any way to prove it if you wanted to. God and the big bang are considered the first cause for present existence in each instance. We can never tell what preceeded god nor can we ever tell what preceeded the big bang. Both concepts are forever clothed in mystery. It is the curse of reality that all things present themselves wrapped in the nature of duality. We must forever be choosing. This or that.

Poster: Rick Henry
Caption: Belief in god is godly and non belief is secularism and there is the agnostic who is not convinced one way or the other. I am puzzled of what other choices there are. One of the real problems with the way some think is that they believe that they have stated something profound, but this ain't it. I feel like I am missing something in this quote, which may be context, but that ain't my fault. What exactly did they mean with this quote? Let's say something directly?

Poster: j. michael loeffert
Caption: And therein lies the secret to each individual universe: total Truth.



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