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Poster: Faith & Reason editor Caption: To ensure civility all submissions are editorially reviewed before posting.
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Poster: Katherine Vickers Caption: Of course, which isn't that in exact disregard of Aristotle _saying God was a part of His Creation, not outside of it? God MUST have those/our attributes in ORDER to conceive us, but THAT does not limit God's abilities ~ only shows us ours. Science is merely our search for God's tricks.
Poster: Iam Ciu Caption: This gives rise to the old question: IF God created all things AND God is all good THEN how could God create evil? I think it was St. Augustine who concluded that evil was the absence of God. Regarding Sir John Houghton's statement, would that mean that it is possible for human attributes-- consciousness, self-awareness, and personality -- to exist without being created by or even shared by God?
Poster: Rich M. Caption: I think this quote is completely vacuous. First, it is phrased in such a way that it appears to be making a logical conclusion. There is, however, nothing more to this statement than an assertion that we have consciousness therefore an intelligent and conscious entity must have created us. I know this is a single quote without context, but why should someone believe this bald assertion to be true?
The general proposition that complexity is required to beget complexity is simply not true. There are many counter example that show complexity arising from simple non-complex structures. Cellular automata are just one example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_automata.
To respond to Jeff, I think it was the other way around.
Poster: Karen Hastings Caption: I absolutely agree with this statement!
Poster: Jeff Caption: Did God create Man in His own image or was it the other way around?
Poster: Gurbilash Nagpaul Caption: There are certain laws which exists in the form of will of god understanding those lawa through ones faith arouses god consciousness awareness personality by which you can transcend yourself and find him in nature and within yourself. We in our religion call it Sargun and Nirgun.
Poster: Rahim Asgard m.d. Caption: If there is a God that god must be the creator of the whole universe.Are there sentient beings in the rest of the universe? If there are, shouldn't their religious beliefs and rules comply with their own environment? Their Jesus look like them rather than us? Are they going to follow the rules of Koran or Bible written on earth?Or their own texts according to their own environment? If so, then the Bible or Koran are only terrestrial and not universal. If there are no sentient beings outside of earth then god must be wasteful and incompetent, to create billions of galaxies for the sake of having some sentient beings on earth. The question of existence ,or lack of existence,of god is the main question for us to answer.
Poster: Mike Myles Caption: But if evolution made me and all living things, guided by natural selection and the physical laws which formed the entirety of the known universe then it's easy to concede the creator does not posses consciousness, self-awareness or personality, nor is there any intention behind the creation. Sounds like a significantly more plausible explanation.
Poster: Meesto Caption: I missed this discussion so I can't tell whether or Sir John was being pro or con as to whether or not God shares our attributes. Seeing as physical matter in the universe shares a similar carbon based chemical structure, and all DNA on our little planet is much more interrelated then previously thought, then it is only reasonable to assume that God shares some of our qualities, if only in a projected holographic sense. Then again we humans love to put an ego-centric anthropormorphic slant on our view of all things in our universe. Seeing as how hierarchies exist on all levels of nature, surely we or any other carbon based alien life forms are not the top of the food chain/living entities in this universe. God is top of the heap, A #1, all glorious creator of everything we know and things we will learn and much more ethereal things we will never know but occasionally have tiny glimpses of during very brief lucid moments of natural sublime ecstasy. Amen! Praise God! Take the leap of Faith! It's fantastic! Read Rumi!
Poster: Lee Caption: Ther are too many people with beliefs on the show and not enough people who can prove God TRUTH. Spirit can be proven but conventional science can not prove what can be KNOWN about spirit because the conventional scientists are locked in by false beliefs. Conscious awareness is SPIRIT produced, something which can not be produced from matter, that is a provable fact of TRUTH which can be demonstrated. Knowing TRUTH can set people free from lies and deceptions.
Poster: Guillermo Farfan Caption: And there of course is the opposite proposition, that God has not made me at all. Which pretty much renders the other statements ultimately useless.
Poster: Donald Engel Caption: I think that man created God to explain his surroundings. If that is true, then of course God would have to have all of our attributes because we could not create something that would think different than we do.
Poster: el_xo Caption: EPIPHANY
We were created by this universe. This universe is our creator, or at least a tool of our creation. This planet was placed here in this galaxy to give birth to life and this life is an extension of the universe and it is our innate nature that drives us to find our creator.
This is my epiphany
el_xo
Poster: Joe F. Caption: Sir John: What personal awarness have you experienced that a being out side of you created you? You came to consciousness and awarness with your parents. You've seen other humans and animials biologically produce offspring. What is it in your own experience that leads you to think a being, other than the ground of being, created you? Where did that idea come from, FOR YOU?
Poster: Venus Caption: All there is, is consciousness, wich is always in a state of becoming, which is colored by our choices. May we choose kindness as a broadstroke of which to color our consciousness.
Poster: K.T. Caption: I love this quote because it highlights a question that I have been mulling over for about a year now. For most of my life I've held very conservative Christian beliefs, but in recent years I've been exposed to a lot of Eastern spiritual ideas. I do believe in God; this is the one thing that has not come into question. I have too much personal experience interracting with God to have cause for doubt. But it's possible to know someone for a long time and then discover that you don't know or understand them as well as you thought you did. Sometimes I wonder if God is some all-inclusive thing which includes you and me and all this is. Most of the time I lean toward believing what the quote puts forth. Some people think it is evil to question the traditional Christian beliefs. I think it is good to ponder these things seeking truth with an honest heart. If we are doing that, how could God be offended even if we are wrong in our thinking? It was more comfortable for me when I thought I had all the answers-I knew exactly what to believe. I am surprised to find that my current state of uncertainty requires a deeper faith and trust in God than ever before.
Poster: Ev. Tommy Martin Caption: In the first place, God only created three human beings that are recorded in the Bible. Each person that came down from Adam and Eve was born and not created, and they were born with free will of choice. All things were created by Christ and for Christ, (Col.1:16). The difference between the attributes that God has given to mankind and the attributes that God himself has and uses is the fact that mankind (outside of Christ) uses his attributes for a selfish reason, whereby God uses them for an unselfish reason. The image of God which is in every human being is the part that wants to be treated right and wants goodness to reign in his heart but does not know how to perform this outside of Christ. In other words, we are blind to the true reason why we are blind spiritually. Remember, Christ is the light of the world.
Poster: George Oertel Caption: When people use the term God, they should define what they are speaking of. Unless we have terms we can agree on, we can never have a rational discussion. Even though, the majority of people in America, Muslims, Christians and Jews say they believe in the God of Abraham in their sacred texts, they are still fighting each other about what that really means. For me, God is a meaningless term trying to account for the unknown. Since it is unknown I must remain agnostic about the supernatural and infinite existence of my personality. This is as close as I can get to my interpretation of the term God.
Poster: Lee Caption: SPIRIT can be tested even though conventional scientists are in denial of the existence of spirit, they use and apply spirit daily as conscious awareness. Too many People can't see the forest of TRUTH because of false beliefs. BELIEF can not change truth but TRUTH can change belief. KNOWING truth can set people free from the bondage of lies and deceptions.
Poster: Jill Dyer Caption: Yes, God created us in his image. We, in turn create our children in our image, if they let us. Of course, they want to be unique when they are young, but usually they come back to us later in life. We are like that with God. We resist being in a box. Then we realize our sameness and we thirst for the peace and love he offers. We can never understand God, or we would be as smart as God. I'd hate to think the power that created was only as smart as man. We cannot know all the mysteries, but we can know the love and support of our maker.
Poster: Patricia Ranney Caption: I believe that God is the prime creator who left the world to continue by natural forces and to mankind, free will to choose good or evil. The miracle is the creation. What man does with it is choice. I also believe that the energy of life continues forever, rather than a believe in afterlife. Everything is related and connected.
Poster: God-frey Caption: Why don't you get it, a mthyical god (Christen, Jew, or Muslim) is just a myth like all the other gods!
Poster: E.K. Caption: By extension, wouldn’t this mean that God also has all the attributes that create human misery? Are there attributes that He doesn’t have control over? Or, if He designed reality to be the way it is, why do we have to condemn or worship anything?
Poster: Lee Caption: Conscious awareness is spirit from God which caused all things created to be what God created them to be and nothing else can cause anything created to cease existing. God created things can be altered, shaped, reformed, etc., by mankind but not completely caused to cease existing and mankind can not cause anything to exist from any thing which was not created by God. Yes God did create evil for His purpose but He did not create the free-will acts of evil people and He will not sustain conditions for evil forever. The conditions for evil became in order for good to overcome. Just as there became a down if there is to be an up, a left if there is to be a right, etc. Trust in God or you will loose everything because your everthing is dependent on God as is your conscious awareness of your I am being.
Poster: Lee Caption: Your conscious awareness is feedback to God's mind from your mind which is used to program the universal mind so everything loosed on earth will be loosed in heaven. We are all universally mind connected, everything affects everything else with God sustaining and maintaining His creation according to His will. All things eventually work for the good of God's chosen elect people. Who is and who is not God's chosen elect people is a provable fact of truth which can be demonstrated. Maybe Bill Moyers should have a live demonstration on his show for all those who deny truth and proof of the existence of God? Knowing truth can set people free from lies and deceptions.
Poster: Tom Hartman Caption: God made the platypus, so that means he must have the attributes of a duckbill. He made the road apple, so must have the attributes of half digested grass. This passes for philosphy????
Poster: Carol Horn Caption: I agree with John Houghton. Everything he said makes so much sense to me. Most scientists are believers because they know you can never have all the answers. I feel so sorry for people who have so little faith. It must be so lonely for them.
Poster: Benny Gutierrez Caption: Everybody is confuse about the bible yes the earth has being crea ted for billions of years but the creation of man to the image of the creator only is 5973 years old.There are billions of years betwen the first verse on the bible and the second verse.
Poster: Dorothy E. Davison Caption: Absolutely! Sir John Houghton's comments on creation continuing to create in it's own likeness brings a certain consistancy to his theories and to the glorious plan of God.
Poster: Barbara Owens Caption: Imagine, if you will, a God who created us (and everything that exists) and who resides within us and within all that is, who is not separate from us nor separate from anything and who continues to create through us as we all slowly learn to consciously evolve
to mirror our creator.
Poster: Edward C. Reh II Caption: Correct. That which is like God, is God.
Poster: Robert Gordon Caption: All that God creates comes from the infinitely rich Source that God is. Certainly God is infinitely more than the qualities we have as well. I agree with Psuedo-Dionysius that God is truly unknowable. Being Creator rather than created, God is no thing.
Poster: Kathy H. Caption: This quote is a wonderful way of making God personal. I feeling very connected to God in worship but I find it difficult to speak about why or how this relationship is so important to me. It is the actual power God has in my life that is significant. Knowing that God understands what it is like to be human helps me to trust God's presence in my life. It is amazing to hear someone say that God has the characteristics stated in this quote.
Poster: Sue Kay Caption: Man was made in God's image. Since He is a spirit, this scripture is not referring to his physical image, but of course, it refers to His personality. He is, however, the perfect version.
Poster: ella rank Caption: It is the most reassuring and hopeful stone on the pathway to a doubt-free path to absolute faith that can ever be. I am most grateful to the genius of Sir Houghton for these words of experience uttered by such an august scientist.
Poster: Lee Cheney Caption: Space is not empty. Space is Conscious Being. E does not equal MC2. C is squared because of flaws in modern mathematics. Actually E = MCL (where L = Conscious/Light/Space).
Poster: Abner Caption:
I concur.
I also agree with what Sir John said about Albert Einstein giving us a fourth dimension of space/time and God being the fifth dimension.
Various schools of theology argue over the semantics and meaning of the verses and parables of religious scriptures and never reach any shared interpretation. In order to confront the question of life, one must remain unaffected by religious dogma, doctrines, and superstition, and one must make use of one’s finest instrument, the intellect.
The Worldwide Religion of Reality
Poster: Al Caption: If consciousness is some kind of measure for the existence or a god than why dont we look at savants with a hyperawarenss in some cases as handicaped and not as some kind portal to god.
Poster: Kathleen Caption: God created fish and worms and clouds and platypus too. Does he then have their qualities as well? Equating the created with the creator seems to me an inconsistent line of thinking.
Poster: George F. Abel Caption: Before my son, Kenneth Glenn Abel, died on 08/19/2001 he wrote the following two poems which I would like to share with you.
PLASMA
The Holy Ghost was alone in the absolute void of space. He was consumed with despair and groaned. His immense lungs filled the nothingness with white hot gasses. But space still seemed empty, and mighty rivers of tears rolled from His cheeks.
Poster: Don Murray Caption: Whether or not god has these attributes seems irrelevant to the “ultimate question”, and a surprising assumption from a scientific mind.
Poster: Akerib Caption: Does God exist? When you look at the complexity of Creation, you realise that there must be a Higher Power Who is capable of creating something on a vast scale. I believe that we were all created for a purpose, without which there would be no point at all. What that purpose is, is up to God Himself. We can debate all we want on His existence or not, but one thing is very clear: without Him, we cease to exist.
Poster: Tambratha Thomas Caption: Everything that you see today is God creation. What God made,God placed Jesus in Marry's stomach so Jesus could die on the cross for all of are sins so that we could be forgiven and never foresackened by the grace of God. Now when Jesus work miracles and people understanding than they will not have anymore question, because without a doubt these Holy people known that Jesus not do the things that he did just to be seen. But the great God his self placed Jesus here for a purpose. So,we will learn how to Love and not hate each other rather / not this certain person just might did terrible things to us. Jesus still want us to for-give one another and go on with great steps in chris. May God bless you and others that read this. Thank you.
Poster: William Switzer Caption: How is it useful to ask if there is a god, and then assign some human characteristics to it. It is intellectual silliness. Human beings are, in terms of physics, simply statistically possible and so therefore happened. How we turned out does not reflect upon a creater in the least, nor does it suggest a need for one.
Poster: Marjorie Cannella Caption: When God created man in his own image of himself. Do you think he had second thoughts on his creation. We near creating own Eden with these computers. Have we become are own creators. I think that was in the plan. Why did God allowed miracles to be done by Saints. The teaching of Jesus, his message is to be indepentdent from God. God kick us out Eden and hope someday we grow up.
Poster: Bernard Doherty Caption: God only knows.
Poster: Dick Talada Caption: The god that created the universe is not a personable god. The beginning was just that. What comes after, is being created through evolution, of which we are all a part. As man evolved, he realized that there was a higher power that supplied his needs while he lived. The big mystery is still where does he go when he dies. That gave rise to the thinking power of evolved brains, to invent the many basic myths and faiths that we cling to today. Early man also understood the oneness of humans, and his conscience and language evolved together, to the point of communicating ideas, through speech and writings, with one another. The holy spirit of all the great religions exemplify that theme. In the end, God is what we call our own consciences. The big problem is that humans, as well as other life forms, have evolved at different speeds in various parts of the world, so we now have a whole slew of different levels of consciences, and do not have the reasoning power to understand this. We, therefore, substitute the mystery of faith to breech the evolutionary gaps, and faith fails us, as evidenced by our inability to remain at peace with one another.
Poster: Christopher Wellons Caption: The relatively recent discovery of and study of the genome seems to indicate that 'code' serves to determine eventual, and perhaps ultimate life forms.. I wonder, could one call such 'code' perhaps some sort of divine 'firewall' between the human mind and the creator? For instance, the divine (God) is arguably so vast, that direct awareness and mental contact could literally destroy us the same way an electic surge fries our computer, to use a simple analogy. Might then religion(s) serve that purpose also, to protect and shield us, rather than reveal our creator to us?
Poster: Nancy Drake Caption: Agreed.
Poster: bpilato@comcast.net Caption: We are made in the image and likeness of God-consciousness—not matter, not human form, and not personality. Those are only concepts being sown and reaped in the God-consciousness that we are. The substance of those concepts is the belief in good and evil, a belief that we, God-consciousness, were warned against entertaining as early as Chapter Two. If you can put these pieces together, you will gain the ability to judge not according to appearances and awaken from the cosmic illusion.
Poster: anita hawley Caption: Of course God created us with the attributes of consciousness, personality, etc. How could we possibly have something that He/She did not have the capability of producing. I am sincerely hoping that God has a sense of humor. On the other hand Isaiah states - as high as the heavens are above the earth so high are my thoughts above your thoughts - God then does possess all qualities that we do but. . . and here is the rub - we do not possess all the qualities of God. Thank God for God
Poster: anita hawley Caption: Of course God contains consciousness,self- awareness etc. How could we possibly have qualities that God does not. It is my sincere hope that God has a sense of humor. Isaiah states As high as the heavens are above the earth ..so high are my thoughts above your thoughts - in other words we do not have all the qualities that God has - so we often mess up our world.
Poster: RICK HENRY Caption: Humans are severly limited in their ability to describe complex ideas. Our language and our art are both entirely composed of symbols. As humans we are capable of understanding the concept of god only in the context of our available symbolic library. Rather than god using himself as a template for humans it would seem from all available evidence that the opposite actually happened, humans made god exactly in their image because they no other choice.
Another interesting aspect of being human is that we must have some visual image of god when we worship, secondly he must also have other attributes such as values,morals, likes and dislikes. Which amazingly are identical to ours. God must always represent the cultural values and morals of whatever community, state or nation in which he is worshipped.
When cultures collide and death and distruction are everywhere each of the participants believe that god is on thier side and he usually, is, at least in the way the individual cultures think of him, which is a mirror image of themselves.
When we think of ourselves being made in the image of god what we think that means is essentially true. We know that god has attributes that we don't have but we incapsulate that into a knowable image.
Humans tolerate others according to their percived interest in doing so. When we fight with other cultures it is not a clash of gods every nation, and community hijacks god images to justify every form of violence and destruction and persecution. Ironically god does walk among us he is everywhere in the streets, down the hall, in our hearts and minds.
Poster: Surya Caption: Everything that exists is God, just as a wave is not seperate from ocean and the realty of wave and ocean is water. That is the truth... The earth is not flat and God is not sitting in the heaven
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