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"The true woman will not be exponent of another, or allow another to be
such for her. She will be her own individual self... Stand or fall by
her own individual wisdom and strength... She will proclaim the `glad
tidings of good news' to all women, that woman equally with man was made
for her own individual happiness, to develop... every talent given to her
by God, in the great work of life."-Susan B. Anthony
Topic: not for ourselves alone
Posted By: lore angele
Date: 11 Nov 1999 12:36 PM
unfortunately i couldn't watch the first section of the two sections
series. will it be repeated soon?thank you in advance for your kind
reply.\lore angelecollege station, texas
Responses:
Subject: The documentary
From: JPlotkin
Date: 11 Nov 1999 1:20 PM
Was anyone else disturbed by the lack of African-American commentators
during the documentary? Angela Davis, in particular, author of Women,
Race, and Class (which discusses the Stone-Anthony/Stanton split) would
have been a meaningful contributor. The lack of attention to immigrant
women and poor working women by Stanton and Anthony is another
significant gap in a generally good, if sentimentalized, program.
Subject: The Documentary
From: Thomas Crubaugh
Date: 11 Nov 1999 1:42 PM
To be honest with you, I hadn't given the absence of African-American
commentators any thought until I read your question. I wonder about
that in myself, Ken Burns and PBS. Do we only hear from
African-Americans when the question is strictly about
African-Americans? I agree that Angela Davis would have been an
excellent representative of the current women's movement and I would
particularly like to have heard and seen her comment on Susan B
Anthony's decision to let the southern states make their woman's
suffarage declarations be in support of white women only. But I would
like to have heard what Davis had to say about the Stanton/Anthony
friendship and everything else as well. There wasn't much criticism of
either woman presented by the talking heads unless they were quoting
one of the two women talking about the other.
Subject: Women of Color Absent in Not For Ourselves Alone
From: Darlene Cumming
Date: 11 Nov 1999 11:19 PM
None of the historians were women of color. If Ken Burns considered
Angela Davis too radical, he could have contacted any university with a
women studies program to find a feminist expert of color to add insight
to the documentary. I don't know how anyone who worked on this project
could have permitted such a conspicuous omission.
Subject: Proportional Coverage of Black Women in the Movement
From: Jeff Fields
Date: 11 Nov 1999 6:05 PM
There was coverage of the black woman's struggle for civil rights in
the sameperiod as Stanton and Anthony struggled for the rights of women
in general.In my opinion, the coverage was proportional to the number
of black womenwho struggled for their civil rights between 1865 and
1920.I am curious as to why the producers did not interview a
contemporary blackfemale historian, but I am not disturbed that one was
not. There is probably avalid reason why one was not, and until the
producers have the chance to answerthe question of why a black female
was not part of the production, I will givethem the benefit of not
jumping to any conclusions.
Subject: The women historians were not women of color
From: Darlene
Date: 11 Nov 1999 4:40 PM
Ken Burns and his associate stated that they knew next to nothing
regarding the historical contributions of women. Overall, they did a
very good job with their amount of research. My larger concern is that
the women historians as well as the women who helped them with their
research did not inform the producers that feminists consider the
voices of women of color crucial when interpreting our history.
Subject: Filmmakers
From: Amy
Date: 02 Feb 2000 10:43 AM
Many other viewers had questions regarding some of the choices Ken and
Paul made during the creation of the film. Please see the "Filmmakers"
section of this site for answers Paul Barnes had for some of the
viewers question. (I have included a question and answer below from
Paul Brnes" replies that is related to the question of African-American
representation in the film.)Q: Please understand that I am a huge
fan of your work, but I was saddened and surprised at the end of the
documentary and its completely jovial tone as millions of white women
headed to the polls for the first time. Why was their no mention (not
even a sentence)of the millions of women who had no cause to celebrate
-- because they were the wrong color? Had Susan B. Anthony and
Elizabeth Cady Stanton been living and vibrant, can there be any
doubt that would have been their next fight? ---Jennifer, Louisiana
A: You're right. We tried to inject a more detailed ending about
what happened for black women, but we found it was too much to add at
the end. It begged for more. We opted instead for the two photos of
black women registering, Elizabeth Griffith alluded to the Civil
Rights Movement, and Ruth Dyk's statement that "not enough has been
achieved". But perhaps it was too subtle.
Subject: Not For Ourselves Alone
From: Elizabeth Puchmelter
Date: 11 Nov 1999 3:32 PM
As an American woman who values the right to vote of all people, it was
very inspiring to view the first part of this series. To learn more
about these remarkable women, to hear their words, to understand their
struggle and the struggle of the thousands of women who supported the
Right to Vote movement adds a deeper appreciation to the priviledge of
the right to vote. Nothing precious is easily won--this certainly is
true about the right to vote. I can only hope that this series inspires
all viewers to participate in the democratic process and support the
right to vote for all people throughtout the world. (Born Niagara
Falls, NY and grateful to a long line of woman who fought the good
fight!)
Subject: Great Job!
From: Lisa
Date: 11 Nov 1999 7:07 PM
I really enjoyed the film. I wish more of the role of women in
American history had been taught to me in school when I was growing up,
and I truly hope films like this will be part of a move in that
direction. Although I've read books on my own and taken college
courses in women's studies to make up for this shortcoming in my public
school education, there is nothing quite like a film like this to bring
history to life. I am left wanting more! Perhaps a film exploring the
role of women during World War II, or during the Great Depression, or
during colonial times! Thanks again for a job well done.
Subject: Elizabeth Cady Stanton
From: Michelle Ocken
Date: 11 Nov 1999 6:09 PM
I found E. C. Stanton quite interesting. I was never taught about
her in school until now, and I now know why. Revolutions are not won
with conservatism. Opinions can be swayed and minds changed that way,
but real change comes from drastic moves. Stanton was forgotten by,
even dismissed by her "comrades" because she would not give in. They
thought she was too bold, too far out there. The world was not ready
for her ideas, not even those who usually agreed with her. Was she
asking for too much? Was she too much of a radical? Well, history
says it all, but I disagree. I recognize that Stanton's views of
equality were far from what most people would consider reasonable, but
what did she have to loose? Why not shoot for the stars? As I look at
the whole picture, I can understand why she was left out of the cause
she created, but it wasn't right. Without her, there wouldn't have
been the movement as they knew it. The question has been posed to me
"Do you think she would have been called a "feminazi"? Yes, I think,
if that term existed at the time, there are those who would have used
it in reference to her, but I don't think it fits. I don't think her
intentions were separatist. I think she was fed up with the ignorance
and callousness of most men. I wonder, how many other great
women I have not yet learned about.
Subject: Movie: Not for Ourselves Alone
From: Brian Lee
Date: 04 Apr 2000 4:31 PM
This is a posting required by my professor for our History 272 Course.
We saw clips of this movie and the most memorable scene to me is when
Frederick Douglass is debating with Susan B. Anthony on the rights of
blacks versus the rights of women. Which should come first? Honestly
I felt that both groups should have rights. But I felt that Douglass
was right in saying his comment on "White woman not really caring about
the rights unless their children are unable to go to school" or
something to that effect. Then he said that Anthony wouldn't want to
trade places with him (him being black and her being white). In
rebuttle, I also thought it was smart of Susan B. Anthony to say that
though that's true, he still wouldn't want to trade his position as
male to be female. Being a black male still has more importance than
being a white women. Both arguments are very sound in their points.
To judge which one has more importance would do neither justice as both
are equally important.
Subject: Movie: Not for Ourselves Alone
From: Brian Lee
Date: 04 Apr 2000 4:32 PM
This is a posting required by my professor for our History 272 Course.
We saw clips of this movie and the most memorable scene to me is when
Frederick Douglass is debating with Susan B. Anthony on the rights of
blacks versus the rights of women. Which should come first? Honestly
I felt that both groups should have rights. But I felt that Douglass
was right in saying his comment on "White woman not really caring about
the rights unless their children are unable to go to school" or
something to that effect. Then he said that Anthony wouldn't want to
trade places with him (him being black and her being white). In
rebuttle, I also thought it was smart of Susan B. Anthony to say that
though that's true, he still wouldn't want to trade his position as
male to be female. Being a black male still has more importance than
being a white women. Both arguments are very sound in their points.
To judge which one has more importance would do neither justice as both
are equally important.
Subject: Hist 272 movie posting
From: Renee Baker
Date: 04 Apr 2000 4:09 PM
I am posting this message in regards to the movie Not for ourselves
Alone for my History class 272 at the U of I. Though, we were unable
to watch the entire three hour video, the clips of the movie I did see
really interest me. After watching certain parts of the movie, I
realize how Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Stanton opposed the 14th and
15 th ammendments. There reasons for opposing the 15th ammendment
especially evolved around the word "male" used. They didn't believe
that the black male should be able to vote or speak his thoughts in
public before women were allowed too. This movie is a good example of
the struggle that women encountered in previous centuries to win the
battle for women's rights. I believe it is these women that we owe our
dedication to because if it hadn't been for them fighting for women's
rights, we might not be living in a society today in which men and
women are allowed to speak and vote in public.
Subject: Not for Ourselves Alone
From: Nicole Weber
Date: 04 Apr 2000 6:58 PM
For my History 272 class at the U of I we are required to do postings
on films that we watch in class. We had to watch Not for Ourselves
Alone, although we didn't see the entire thing, we watched important
clips of it. Through these clips I learned that Susan B. Anthony and
Elizbeth Cady Staton we major forces for womens rights. I learned that
they were against the 14th and 15th amendments because they focused on
giving certain rights to men. They believed that women should be
allowed the same things. The clips also showed the agrument that black
men should have rights versus white women. Even though Frederick
Douglass thinks that blacks deserve more rights he says that he would
not trade places with a white women. This showed that women were
denied rights, but with the help of women like Staton and Anthony women
have now gained these rights.
Subject: Not for Ourselves Alone
From: Katie Flugge
Date: 05 May 2000 10:16 AM
I too got to watch this movie in my history class at the University of
Illinois, and although we didn't get to watch all of it, I must say
that I was impressed by what we did get to see. The film gave a fair
and evenhanded view of what was happening during that time, and it
opened my eyes to a lot of issues which I did not know existed. This
is a wonderful film, and I truly hope to be able to see it in its
entirety some day.
Subject: Not for Ourselves Alone
From: Jessica Johnston
Date: 05 May 2000 1:02 PM
I enjoyed the movie, "Not for Ourselves Alone." I was required to
watch it in my History 272 class, but I am glad I got the opportunity
to see it. The movie really gave me an idea of the struggle that went
on in the fight for women's rights. It amazed me to see Susan B.
Anthony demand the right to vote at the voting polls, when she knew
that there was a good chance of her being arrested. It really shows
the strengh that women of that time had to exhibit in order to get the
many rights that women now take for granted.
Subject: Hist 272
From: Jennifer Kim
Date: 05 May 2000 12:07 AM
I also viewed "Not For Ourselves Alone" for my History 272 class. I
found the efforts of Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony to be
very inspiring. The movie illustrated the hard struggles that women
faced at the time, especially at a period when black people were
demanding rights as well. Hearing the sides of both Frederick Douglass
and the woman's rights activists shed light on both aspects of the
civil rights issues. Overall, I must say that I feel grateful to the
women involved in fighting for woman's rights. Had they not been so
determined and willing to fight, we might not be where we are today.
Subject: Not for ourselves Alone
From: Nicole Pierson
Date: 05 May 2000 11:51 AM
Nowadays, I think people take the right to vote for granted. This
should not happen. Movies like, "Not for Ourselves Alone," help show
us how difficult is was to gain this right and how we should not be so
quick to take it for granted. The right to vote was being granted to
colored men, and women were still not in the picture. This is what
Stanton and Anthony were fighting for. If they were changing the vote,
shouldn't they change it so all people were equal. I think movies like
this are wonderful and remind us how hard people have worked for things
and that we should take advantage of the opportunities we have been
given such as the right to vote.
Subject: WS 272 Posting on not ourselves alone
From: Kyle Prall
Date: 05 May 2000 7:57 PM
I also felt that the debate between Anthony and Douglas was very
interesting. They both make good points about the lack of rights for
women as well as for blacks. It is hard to imagine from our
perspective who would have been worse off, black men, or white women.
What is most important however is their ability to work together to
achieve both their goals.
Subject: History 272 posting
From: Colleen Casey
Date: 05 May 2000 8:20 PM
The movie Not For Ourselves Alone helped to show how hard the two women
really had to work to secure the vote for women. They dedicated so
much of their lives to working for this. This movie was good cause it
also showed the conflicts that were going on at the time because Black
Males were trying to secure the vote for themselves as well. It is
hard to say which group was worse off. But, because of people like
Susan Anthony and Fredrick Douglas, both groups have the freddom to
vote and be equal in society. We owe them for thier hard work and
dedication to the cause. I just never realized how much until I saw
this film.
Subject: Research
From: Pam
Date: 04 Apr 2001 9:48 AM
Hello all.I am 13 years old and doing a project for " Nationl History
Day" . My friend and I are a group and we decided on doing Susan B.
Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton . Our only dilema is that we are
doing a play and we need to have pictures of them so we know what to
wear . We can even make costumes if neccesary.If anyone here could send
me a picture , through email ,that would be great! thanx!
God Bless, Pam & Rachel
ps,my email: PFastPitch07@aol.com or
ILuvCamp9369@yahoo.com
Subject: elizabeth cady stanton
From: danielle johnson
Date: 10 Oct 2001 10:08 PM
i'm trying to find out if the quote "i am the better writer and she the
better critic ... and together we have made arguments that have stood
unshaken by the storms of thirty long years; arguments that no man has
answered".,by stanton from a speech she had given or is it just a
quote? if it is a speech, can someone tell me the name of the speech
and how i can find it. i have to write about what she meant by it.
thank you, danielle johnsonmizdjohnson@aol.com
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