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"The true woman will not be exponent of another, or allow another to be
such for her. She will be her own individual self... Stand or fall by
her own individual wisdom and strength... She will proclaim the `glad
tidings of good news' to all women, that woman equally with man was made
for her own individual happiness, to develop... every talent given to her
by God, in the great work of life."-Susan B. Anthony
Topic: Something they left out
Posted By: Michelle
Date: 11 Nov 1999 4:49 PM
Ken Burns Silences Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady StantonPress
Release, 11/3/99Ken Burns' documentary, Not For Ourselves Alone: The
Story of Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony does not tell
their whole story. While known for his comprehensive documentaries on
the Civil War and baseball, Burns has been more selective with his
latest film on the history of the women's movement. "Without known
exception, the early American feminists opposed abortion," said FFL
President Serrin Foster, "but you won't learn this by watching PBS on
Sunday and Monday, November 7 - 8, at 8 p.m."Elizabeth Cady Stanton,
who organized the first women's rights convention in Seneca Falls, New
York, classified abortion as a form of infanticide. Outraged by the
common practice of abortion, Stanton wrote a century before Roe v.
Wade, "When you consider that women have been treated as property, it
is degrading to women that we treat children as property to be disposed
of as we see fit."Like many feminist papers of the day, Anthony and
Stanton's Revolution often editorialized against abortion while
simultaneously identifying the root causes that drove women to
abortion. They referred to abortion as "child murder, infanticide,
feticide.""Anti-abortion laws enacted in the latter half of the 19th
century were a result of the advocacy efforts by feminists who worked
in an uneasy alliance with the male dominated medical profession and
the mainstream media. The early feminists understood that, much like
today, women resorted to abortion because they were abandoned or
coerced by boyfriends, husbands or parents and lacked the financial
resources to have a child on their own," stated Foster, "so they sought
legal protection from abortion."In her 1875 speech entitled "Social
Purity," Anthony said that men were responsible for abortion,
infanticide, rap and prostitution, but declared women must also take
responsibility for terminating the life of their unborn children. She
urged women to get to the root of the problem. "The work of the woman
is not to lessen the severity or the certainty of the penalty for the
violation of the moral law, but to prevent this violation by the
removal of the causes which lead to it.""Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan
B. Anthony and other feminist foremothers provide a rich history of
pro-woman, pro-life activism that continues to inspire us today. By
providing ample documentation to Florentine Films, Burns' production
company, FFL had hoped that their whole story would be told. Burns
chose to ignore what the early feminists would not - abortion.""The
women who worked for the right of women to vote also worked for the
right to life. We proudly continue their legacy," stated Foster.
Feminists for Life concentrates on practical solutions in the
workplace, school and home, and supports legislative efforts that
address the root causes that drive women to abortion such as child
support enforcement, the Violence Against Women Act and opposing the
child exclusion provisions in welfare reform.
Responses:
Subject: Abortion & Early Feminists
From: Mary Shearer
Date: 11 Nov 1999 9:15 PM
Feminists for Life frequently uses a Victoria Woodhull quote, but
there's one quote of hers that I haven't seen them use: "Abortion is
also a practice which spreads damnation world-wide. Not so much,
perhaps, in those cases where it is accomplished, but in those much
more numerous cases where it is desired and attempted, but not
reached."Yes, Victoria Woodhull did write an editorial Oct. 8,
1870, in which she called abortion murder, but she didn't mention
anything about making abortion illegal! She said the remedy was
"granting freedom and equality to woman." It's hard to tell what
postion Victoria Woodhull would support today. She was just as opposed
to prostitution as abortion, but she supported legalization of
prostitution to palliate its evils until a better solution could be
found. Perhaps she would feel the same way about abortion.
Subject: The tenable ways in which to fight abortion
From: Chris Welsh
Date: 11 Nov 1999 10:47 AM
We as a society must forgo all conclusions that result in violence
and oppression being used as a solution. Neither the man who assualts
the child in utero, the doctor who sucks the child to peices in utero,
nor the mother who through her varied herbal and pharmaceutic
concotions poisons the child has any naturual right to do so. When you
dehumanize the unborn child and castigate her as your enemy you do so
at the expense of allowing anyone who beleives such rhetoric to justify
in their minds the taking of a mere potential human life. Yet if we all
began in such a manner existing and still we attempt to lay unmitigated
blame and ghastly option to the pregnant woman without attacking the
root social problems of patriarchal society (which forces women who
wish to succeed to act like the ever non-pregnant man) then pro-choice
feminism will eat itself. Equality has the price of equality, and
unless we can allow the private world of the family to prosper
alongside the public world of work and school then equality does not
exist. Men need to engage themselves in this private world as surely
women have been allowed into the fold of the public world. It is my
opinion that it is not women that are to blame for this but all of
society that does not wish to be held responsible for unplanned
pregnancies. I support a social revolution instead of enacting any
more useless laws either way. Also I do not call pro-choice activists
"pro-choice" I prefer this termNatalism1 often capitalized : a
political or personal philosophy, movement, or populationcontrol
organization (like that of the U.N.F.P.A.) that exalts mothers andoften
fathers (most men can not be convicted in the murder of a fetus,
thankthe "pro-choice" movement when you see them) above the preborn
individualand that stands for abortion on demand, uses often base
economic and socialproblems as justifications, and forcible suppression
of other choices bynegation in the natalist controlled media. I like
the last part I think it fits this discussion fine.
Subject: Consequences of Forced Pregnancy
From: Stephanie
Date: 11 Nov 1999 1:20 PM
We must also examine and take responsiblity for the numerous
consequences of forcing a woman to bear a child against her will:
eating disorders, depression, child abuse, addictions, high job/work
turnover,poverty..... the list goes on. Are we willing to make life
harder for women and those they care for just to push what we think is
"moral" or correct without also addressing the terrible social problems
that occur when this happens?.....Stephanie
Subject: Re: Consequences of Forced Pregnancy
From: Steven K
Date: 11 Nov 1999 5:20 PM
I don't know what we are ready to take the responsability for but the
PBS program recently on called Six Billions and Beyond spoke about "
switching from an emphasis on demographic control (achieved through
setting numerical targets and mounting birth-control campaigns) to an
emphasis on general health care, education and choice as part of a
family planning approach to curbing population growth. The switch was
based on the theory that if women were literate, well informed and able
to make their own decisions, they would choose to have fewer
children."See Six Billion and
Beyond, UN Policy
Subject: I think you've lost that argument
From: LeaAnn
Date: 11 Nov 1999 9:41 PM
It's all very well to say feminism used to support a pro-life view. It
used to be a lot of things it isn't now. It's clear that a mainstream
TV production couldn't risk feminist ire by being seen to support
pro-life views. Your position just seems untenable within feminism. If
you really want equality between the sexes and not just female
supremacy, I would suggest you leave the movement instead of lending
credibility to them. From what I've seen of normal feminists you
probably get told you are not a real feminist anyway, and the
"extremists", as they are always refered to, who run the show won't
give your views any space but will claim to represent you when they say
that abortion is a woman's issue, meaning of course that all women
support it and all men better shut up about it.
Subject: Thanks, michelle...
From: Martian Bachelor
Date: 11 Nov 1999 10:04 PM
...for adding this interesting bit of important history which was
evidently censored -- and I'm no pro-lifer because I know we can't put
these sorts of genies back in their bottles. The perpetually raised
spectre of women dieing in "back-alley" abortions is patently absurd
these days, so it's telling that this was deliberately left out of the
"documentary". Men like feminist Ken Burns really have some power when
they're cowered by what some women might do if the truth is told. But
then the contemporary adolescent feminist psyche demands that men
accept her fantasy of what the world is and what truth is.
Subject: adolescent female fantasy?
From: Stephanie
Date: 11 Nov 1999 1:13 PM
I think you have it the other way around. Women have historically been
made to accept the adolescent male fantasy of what was real, proper and
"correct"..Until feminism challenged that notion and stated womens
reality IS reality in of of itself, without a male viewpoint/philosophy
to "compare" it to....Stephanie
Subject: "Roots of Roe"
From: Jeff Fields
Date: 11 Nov 1999 7:08 PM
In Los Angeles, the PBS affiliate KCET broadcast the documentary "Roots
of Roe" followingthe second part of this series. Stanton's and
Anthony's anti-abortion stance was thefirst fact mentioned in the Roe
documentary.Just as the continuing struggle for equal rights is an
ongoing process, so is the documentationof this history an ongoing
process. No three hour documentary on the lives of two soimportant
figures in the women's movement will describe every political position
thatthey held. Instead of dwelling on why the producers did not think
it was importantenough to mention Stanton's and Anthony's opinion on
abortion, I chose to watchwith great interest the "Roe" documentary,
which covered the history of abortion rightsin America from colonial
times until the Roe decision. I learned that abortion before the
"quickening", or in the first trimester was not regardedas wrong until
the 19th century. I learned that the Comstock Act passed in the
middleof the the 19th century, outlawed the interstate commerce of
birth control, and thatmany states outlawed the use of contraceptives,
most notably Connecticut, until 1965. I try not to pass judgement
on historical documentaries that don't "tell the whole story".The
producers are only human, and their resources are finite. I learned a
lot from"Not for Ourselves Alone". I learned a lot from the "Roe"
documentary. More willbe revealed when I watch the next historical
documentary.
Subject: left something out
From: scott salvato
Date: 11 Nov 1999 2:49 PM
Michelle at the very least points out the obvious; Susan B. Anthony
and Elzabeth Cady Stanton were unequivocally opposed to abortion. It
is part of the historical record. Speculation of what they would think
or do now undermines the greatness and foresight they displayed on the
full rights of women that was a century ahead of their time. The most
offensive and degrading thing we can do is write them off as products
of their times and not take their view of abortion seriously when we
take every thing else they believed to heart. I don't know what Ken
Burns mindset was, but it was a peice of information that is
tremendously relevant today and would have made a great sub-piece and a
wonderful discusssion. Alas, it was not meant to be.
Subject: The Red Roots of White Feminism
From: Jacqueline Keeler
Date: 11 Nov 1999 4:56 PM
I didn't see any discussion of the influence of Iroquois women's right
to vote in villages adjacent to many New York state towns like Seneca
Falls. In fact, it was after watching Seneca women reorganize their
nations' government that Lucretia Mott headed straight to Cady
Stanton's home to organize the conference. In many of their speeches
they speak of the rights of Iroquois women they saw exercising everyday
as the source of their vision of women's rights. This is never
mentioned, in fact, the narrator notes that nowhere in the world were
women allowed to vote-- but just a stone's throw from the church where
the convention was held Iroquois women were electing leaders. It
should be noted that the constitution of the United States was also
based on the Iroquois Great Law of Peace that allowed ONLY women the
right to vote-- the white founding fathers changed the part!
Subject: abortion
From: Rosie
Date: 12 Dec 1999 5:32 PM
Thank you for telling the truth! I have had such a hard time with
women's rights because it all seemed to end with a women's right to
destroy her child in her womb but knowing this information makes me
more likely to join on the band wagon where I can be pro-women's rights
and pro-life too.
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