FACING THE PAST

April 8, 1997
		Part of South Africa’s transition from a minority white government to majority black rule was the creation of a truth and reconciliation commission to investigate alleged atrocities committed during the apartheid era. Charlayne Hunter-Gault discusses the effectiveness of the commission with Dullah Omar, South Africa’s minister of justice.

Jan. 24, 1996: Newsmaker interview with Thabo Mbecki Oct. 29, 1998: The Truth and Consequences Commission issues apartheid report March 26, 1998: Regional experts discuss the democratic transition in South Africa March 27, 1998: President Clinton's visit to South Africa April 8, 1997: South Africa's justice minister discusses the apartheid commission's findings. March 24, 1998: Economic experts discuss Africa's promising economy Dec. 4, 1997: Revelations that Winnie Mandela might have committed crimes Complete NewsHour coverage of Africa   South African government 1996 Democratic Constitution The African National Congress Democratic Party Freedom Front Party Inkatha Freedom Party New National Party Pan Africanist Congress Party United Democratic Movement Party ANC Full List of Parties Idasa Democratic Organization	CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: The Truth & Reconciliation Commission, or TRC, is the constitutional body set up to investigate alleged atrocities during the apartheid era and, where appropriate, grant amnesty to the perpetrators and compensation to the victims. Halfway through its two-year life span the commission has received more than 3500 amnesty applications, including four from apartheid era policemen who confessed their role in the killing of anti-apartheid Stephen Biko nearly two decades ago. But the approach has been controversial from the start as the Biko case revealed. At the center of the process is a 63-year-old lawyer and long-time anti-apartheid crusader, Dullah Omar, South Africa’s minister of justice. On a visit to Washington this week Justice Omar spoke to us about how the process is working.
	The reconciliation process.
	DULLAH OMAR, Minister of Justice, South Africa: Firstly, I would say that the victims of apartheid, the black men and women, children, who suffered so much during the apartheid years, have displayed remarkable generosity of approach. In general they have not asked for revenge or vengeance; they’ve asked for the truth, and they asked for a measure of justice and understanding. On the other hand, quite frankly, in my view, the perpetrators of apartheid crimes have not been as forthcoming as they should have been. And I hope that in the remaining period of the work of the Truth Commission they will be much more forthcoming because of the generous provisions of the law insofar as they are concerned. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Are you talking numbers, or are you talking about degree of heinousness, or what? You mean, there are other people running around out there who haven’t come forward? Just what do you mean? DULLAH OMAR: Yes, it is in terms of numbers first of all, but it is also attitude. When applying for amnesty there is a concern that a number of perpetrators of very serious crimes, men, and generally speaking the perpetrators have been men, men who have committed terrible deeds come along to the TRC with a view to obtaining amnesty and show very little emotion, very little contrition, very little regret, and one would have hoped that the humanity and generosity displayed by victims would be matched by some degree of contrition on the part of the perpetrators. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Some critics have argued that this process favors the perpetrators, who are granted amnesty and able to walk free, while the victims get nothing. How do you answer that? DULLAH OMAR: Well, I think that an attitude which does not display contrition contributes towards the bitterness which some people display towards any project which is designed to bring about reconciliation--is perfectly understandable in the context of many, many generations of exploitation, of suppression of dignity, which they have suffered over so many years. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: How much of an acceptance of this do you think people who have been victims are really going to be able to take without somebody going before the bar of justice? I mean, even you were harassed; you were--for representing political prisoners. Your heart medicine was switched with poison. Your daughter was a victim of a planned kidnaping attempt. Can all of this be forgotten without somebody going before a court of law? DULLAH OMAR: Well, let me say first of all that the TRC process does not exclude prosecutions. A number of prosecutions have--and will continue. The fact that you have a TRC process and an amnesty process is not an alternative punishment and justice in every instance. It depends on the situation. There is no general amnesty, and there is no automatic amnesty. Once there has been full disclosure and the offense qualifies in the sense that it is associated with a political objective, then the committee still has to decide whether the act is proportionate to the objective sought to be achieved. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: This past week former South African President F.W. DeKlerk said that the commission and its counselors favored the victims. How do you respond to that? DULLAH OMAR: I think his problem is that throughout his political life as part of the National Party Government they knew no impartiality; they knew no respect for the independence of our judiciary and the judicial process, and they knew no respect for human rights. And it is very difficult for him to believe that other people are, in fact, capable of displaying such respect. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: What compensation is there for victims? So far, what have people asked for? DULLAH OMAR: It is one of the reasons that I say that our people have displayed tremendous generosity because they do not ask for very much. Some of the victims who have appeared before the commission have asked for very simple human things. The mother of a boy who disappeared and who it now transpired was murdered by the security forces has only asked for a tombstone for her son, a place where she can lay some flowers, a place where she can say a prayer for her son. And you have many mothers, parents, who ask for simple things like those. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Any other things? DULLAH OMAR: Well, there are certain things. There are children growing up, children of victims, who are unable to pursue their schooling due to lack of funds. All they ask for is sufficient to enable them to send their children to school and medical treatment, for example, some help in achieving rehabilitation. People have not asked for fancy sums of money, though I do believe that monetary reparation is an important element which government must give consideration to. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Turning to another issue in your portfolio, South Africa, since the end of apartheid, has faced a dramatic increase in violent crime. What do you think the cause of that is? And what’s being done about it?
	The rise in violent crime.
	DULLAH OMAR: Well, first of all, it’s a misconception to think that crime began when democracy started its first day. We’ve always had terrible crime in our country. We are a society which was based upon violence, violence and domination were the order of the day throughout the apartheid years, and the crime which we are witnessing in our society today is a continuation of that kind of crime. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: The government is under great pressure, as you know, to take stronger action, but--the police who are committing the crimes. DULLAH OMAR: That is part of our inheritance, part of the legacy of the apartheid years, that many elements in the police force have never been seriously interested in fighting crime. I must add that there are many good ordinary policemen and police women who are doing an excellent job. But it is also true that we inherited a culture of corruption certain elements of the police force and also complicity in crimes and participation in crimes, and those are methods that we need to deal with. They are part of the problems of transition. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: How much does the economic situation, the vast disparity between the haves and the have-nots, contribute to this climate of violence? DULLAH OMAR: There is nothing mysterious about the nature of crime in our country. We have a society in which there are some people who are very rich, who wallow in luxury, and you have millions of black South Africans who live in squatter camps, with a large percentage, at times up to 50 percent, who have no work, and who live under those terrible conditions. They have families to look after, children who have to go to school, and they live under terribly miserable conditions. Now, when you have a situation of that kind, terrible socioeconomic conditions, and you’ve inherited a culture of violence, after all, our state, our previous state was based upon violence, and the use of violence was the order of the day, when you have that combination, you--you have a great deal of brutalization which is a characteristic of our society, so part of our task as a new democratic government is to reverse that culture of brutality and the culture of violence which exists. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Where do you see South Africa two years down the road when the second democratic election takes place? Are you hopeful? DULLAH OMAR: Transformation in our country is not a single event. It is a process. And I see that process continuing. By 1999 many of the things in respect of which we have laid a foundation would have come to fruition. And I believe that 1999 will see us on the edge of greater development and greater achievement. CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Well, Mr. Minister, thank you. DULLAH OMAR: Thank you.