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 | MADELEINE ALBRIGHT WARNS BURUNDIJULY 23, 1996TRANSCRIPT |
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The United States' UN Ambassador, Madeleine Albright, says the Central African nation of Burundi is on the brink of "national suicide". Her warning comes amid continuing repatriation of 85,000 Hutus to Rwanda, and days after 300 Tutsis were massacred, allegedly by Hutu rebels. Margaret Warner provides a backgrounder, followed by a Newsmaker interview.
May 23, 1996:
Susan Rice, deputy National Security Advisor for Africa, discusses growing tensions in Burundi, a nation that shares a border, and similar ethnic make-up, with Rwanda.
March 28, 1996:
At a crucial moment in Burundi's history, Charlayne Hunter-Gault investigates whether tribal wars, with Rwanda-like genocide, are about to erupt.
January 30, 1996:
Ambassador Albright's last NewsHour interview on the situation in Burundi.
Browse the NewsHour's Africa Files.
MARGARET WARNER: Here now to discuss Burundi and other matters is UN Ambassador Madeleine
Albright. Welcome, Madame Ambassador.
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, US Ambassador to the UN: Good to be with you.
MARGARET WARNER: Give us an update on these two situations we just showed here in the taped piece. First of all, this massacre over the weekend, what can the U.S. Government and the UN say about who perpetrated the massacre?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, we are looking into all the details of it. There’s every indication that it was, in fact, done by the Hutus, but it is very hard to specifically say that. What is terrible, Margaret, is that this is part of a cycle of violence that has just racked the country in the most desperate way with hundreds of thousands of people over the years that have been killed.
MARGARET WARNER: And then this forced repatriation we just saw, can you confirm that the operation has been halted? How many people have been deported in these few days?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, what we have seen is that out of those 85,000 refugees that are in
Burundi, it looks as though about 13,000 have, in fact, been pushed into Rwanda. There are about 6,000 that are somewhere along the way. And we hope it’s being halted. But I tell you, I think the situation here is very delicate, and moves very fast. We are monitoring on an hour-to-hour basis just--it’s something that we’re keeping very, very close track of.
MARGARET WARNER: You and many others have warned that Burundi could flash into another Rwanda. But do you think, in fact, it already is a Rwanda but in a kind of slow motion?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, it’s a difference to have it be in slow motion. Certainly there have been killings over the years that have had genocidal aspects to it. When I was there, which was in January, I had told them that I had been in Rwanda and had seen their future. This is a nation that’s about to commit national suicide. And the problem is that what you have are extremists on the Tutsi and Hutu side who feed
off each other and don’t allow the moderates and the normal people to get on with their lives. The U.S. has worked very hard, probably harder than any other country, to try to warn, to try to get the United Nations to make plans for contingency, humanitarian intervention to support a political process that Former President Niara of Tanzania has been orchestrating.
MARGARET WARNER: But the U.S. does not support, and I gather the United Nations doesn’t either, sending any kind of force, military force in their to prevent it. Why not?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, it’s very--it’s a job that’s practically impossible to do. What we have been trying to do is work with the UN to create a force that is ready, that can, in fact, serve as a preventive force. The problem is who will be in it, what will be its mandate, will it be accepted? When I was in Burundi, leaders there didn’t--were basically saying they wouldn’t accept a force like that. So we are planning, helping the UN plan for such a force, but it’s very hard to introduce it at this moment.
MARGARET WARNER: Explain to our viewers why this is different from say Bosnia. I mean, former President Carter, for whom you worked on the National Security Council, said, you know, we’ll send our troops to
Bosnia, but we don’t pay attention to Liberia or Rwanda, and he said, that’s because they’re African countries, they’re black people, and they’re poor, and we like to concentrate our efforts on white people in Europe.
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: That is not the way it is phrased, I think. The issue here is we have clearly got a very large humanitarian interest in Africa, and we have spent money and effort trying to get a variety of ways to solve the terrible problems there. The issue is we cannot deal with everything. That is the major tragedy I think all of us that have a moral outlook about foreign policy are dealing with. The bottom line is that it’s a humanitarian interest, but we have to say that it’s not a vital national interest, and it has nothing to do with black or white.
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Now let’s turn now to your trip. And you went to Greece and Turkey and Cyprus to try to get something going, I gather, on the situation in Cyprus. Why is now that issue something that the U.S. is willing to spend some prestige and energy on when it’s been such a longstanding issue?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, it has been a longstanding issue, but what has happened is that President Clinton has met in the last few months with the leaders of those three areas, with the president of Turkey, with the prime minister of Greece, and with the president of Cyprus, and we thought there have
been a number of people involved in this, that there’s a window of opportunity for this longstanding problem. Cyprus wants to join the European Union, and those accession talks are supposed to begin in 1998, and, therefore, it provides some window, some leverage that would deal--allow us to deal with the problem. So I went as kind of a series of people that have gone there to look at the issue. There is a UN peacekeeping operation, and while--
MARGARET WARNER: Separating the division of this island.
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Exactly. There’s a buffer zone, and it separates the Greek Cypriot side from the Turkish Cypriot side, and it has been there now for--since 1974, so it’s a very longstanding UN operation. What we were concerned about is an increase in tensions recently in the buffer zone, and as you know, a United Nations peacekeeper was killed. We didn’t go there with any illusions about being able to solve the problem quickly. As you said, it’s been a very longstanding problem, but we did think that some
small steps would help the atmosphere and defuse the tension. So what I was doing there was trying to work out a meeting between the military commanders of the two communities and they’re now working on the modalities of that, so we’re hoping that there will at least be some small step in the right direction.
MARGARET WARNER: What I really very much want to ask you about is your impression of this new government in Turkey, which it’s the first time they’ve been headed by a member of an Islamic party. You met with Prime Minister Erbakan. What do you think his intentions are, and what’s the prognosis for Islamicizing--if that’s a word--Turkey or turning it into more of an Islamic state?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: I think the important thing to keep in mind, Margaret, is how important Turkey is. Turkey is at the crossroads of a number of civilizations. We have tremendous number of issues with them that have to do with NATO, that have to do with Iraq, that have to do with their support of Israel. Generally, they are highly important to us. They are a very important NATO ally. And so what we did, and I went there with the following message, which is that Prime Minister Erbakan was elected by a constitutional format and is a democratically elected leader. I stated to him the principles on which U.S.-Turkish policy has been based and will continue to be based, and that is the continuation of democracy, the importance of free markets, the importance of the NATO relationship, the importance of reaching out to European countries, and a secular basis for a democratic republic. That was something that he understood. I think that we will have to see how now that he is a responsible leader, rather than an opposition leader, how he assesses what our various relationships are, and the proof of it will be in his deeds.
MARGARET WARNER: But, for instance, how did he respond when you talked about the importance of the
secular basis, i.e., the separation of the religious heritage of the country from their government? How did he respond?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, we--I stated the case, and he didn’t argue with it. There were a number of things--you know, we talked about Cyprus. We talked about Iraq. We talked about Provide Comfort. I think that--
MARGARET WARNER: That is the operation--I want to ask you about that in a minute--
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Yes.
MARGARET WARNER: --under which U.S. warplanes use Turkey to fly over Iraq.
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Right. Well, we--we covered a whole set of issues. I think that as he started out, I think I saw a willingness to understand each other’s interest and a willingness to work together. He is a partner in a government with Deputy Prime Minister Chiller, also foreign minister, who is well known to us, and who has worked very well within the European groups, and with us, and I think we have to see--I think it’s too early to tell.
MARGARET WARNER: And what kind of assurances or commitments did he give on this question of whether he will continue to allow U.S. allied warplanes to use Turkey as a base for the operations over Iraq?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, that is an issue that’s going on at this very moment. We--he, himself, at least the feeling I got--understands the importance of the operation, and there is a meeting of the minds that it is not an imposition by the U.S. of our policy but a mutual accommodation, but it’s the parliament that has to vote on it, and that--and we respect the role of the parliament, so we’ll have to see how that comes out.
MARGARET WARNER: But members of his party have consistently voted against it when it’s come up in the parliament.
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: They have, but I think that we are working very hard, as are our friends and as are various people in his government, I think, to explain the mutuality of the interests on Provide Comfort.
MARGARET WARNER: It sounds as if you’re reserving judgment on really what this new government is going to mean for the U.S. and--
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think we have to see what--how his words now translate into deeds, rather than his words previously, and we--it is a period, as it is with any new government of testing, and I do
MARGARET WARNER: Finally, let me ask you about the U.S. effort or determination not to let the UN Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali be reelected to a second term. You all announced this several weeks ago. What’s the state of your campaign to persuade the rest of the UN that this is the right course?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I don’t know if I’d call it a campaign, but what we are doing is, first of all, making very clear to everybody that the United States is very supportive of the United Nations because we are and we see it as very valuable to the U.S. now and in the 21st century. What is really happening, Margaret, is it’s sinking in to the other 184 members that the U.S. decision is irrevocable, and that we made our decision as early as we did so that other candidates would, in fact, come forward, and there are certain names being floated around now. But I think it’s going to take a while for the message to really reach everybody. We are talking to people. We are making very clear that we would like to see Boutros-Ghali have a dignified exit, but, frankly, that he has lost the confidence of the United States.
MARGARET WARNER: Do you think there’s some resentment of the United States, that it’s been kind of high-handed or that we’re throwing our weight around?
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that on a number of issues there’s a certain question as to what the role of the United States is, and people are very concerned about the fact that we have not paid up all our arrears and I assure them that we’re working very hard with Congress to try to get that to happen. But we are the United States, and I think that it is important when the most powerful country in the world looks at an international organization that we need to have somebody that’s heading it that we believe is suitable to take it into a dynamic new age.
MARGARET WARNER: Well, Madame Ambassador, thank you very much.
AMB. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Thank you.
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