AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING
June 15, 1998

Prior to President Clinton's trip to China, Jim Lehrer talked with the Chinese Ambassador to the U.S. about the big issues: human rights, China's connection to current campaign finance investigations, nuclear weapons and how average Americans should view China.

March 9, 1999: A U.S. scientist is fired for allegeldly passing nuclear information to China Feb. 26, 1999: The State Department criticizes China's crackdown on dissidents. Dec. 30, 1998: China cracksdown on political opponents. July 7, 1998: The Tibetan question. June 29, 1998: President Clinton challenges China on human rights issues. June 24, 1998: Three dissidents discuss Clinton's visit to China. June 15, 1998: The Chinese ambassador on Clinton's trip April 27, 1998: An interview with Chinese dissident Wang Dan Dec. 10, 1997: An interview with Chinese dissident Wei Jingsheng Browse the NewsHour's coverage of Asia   State Department's report on Human Rights abuses for 1998 Embassy of the Peoples Republic of China Human Rights Watch	JIM LEHRER: President Clinton goes to China in 10 days and we're going to talk about the trip and other matters with the Chinese Ambassador to the United States Li Zhaoxing. He's a career diplomat who served as ambassador at the United Nations and as Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs before coming to Washington earlier this year. I talked with him this afternoon. Mr. Ambassador, welcome. AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : Thank you. JIM LEHRER: First on the increasing economic problems in Asia. Your government has been critical recently of Japan? What is it that you would like Japan to do?
	Japan's financial responsibility to Asia.
	AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : Well, the recent crisis in the financial area suffered by some of China's neighbors is a very serious development, and many countries of the world have rushed to help, to help those countries to overcome the impact of the financial crisis, to help Asia to stabilize the financial situation. Japan is an economic giant, so people have every reason to hope and expect that it will do more and better. JIM LEHRER: Is the falling value of the yen affecting China? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : China's exports have already felt the impact, and that affected some slowing down of the export pace; however, China has sits own strong points, and the government has taken some effective measures to address the issue--to give the whole year we believe we can still make the target they have set for the implement. JIM LEHRER: But your bottom line is that Japan should be doing more than it is doing? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : Right. And this is also my impression I have gathered from my meetings with quite a few of your congress people on the Hill and many of them have also some complaints about the government of Japan. JIM LEHRER: All right. On President Clinton's upcoming visit to your country, many questions have been raised in this country in the last several days, last few weeks, about whether or not President Clinton should go to Tiananmen Square. What do you think about that? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : Tiananmen Square is the symbol of the Beijing, the capital of China. All the Chinese people are proud of Tiananmen Square, and Tiananmen itself, is also embodiment of the civilization of 5,000 years of China. And the Chinese government always receives foreign heads of government, foreign heads of state at Tiananmen, so this is a simple reason-we just want to give the due welcome, the warm welcome to President Clinton, as we should, just as we give welcoming ceremonies to all the other leaders and foreign heads of state and heads of government. JIM LEHRER: What do you say to those who say that his presence there says it's okay what happened here nine years ago during the pro-democracy uprising? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : To begin with, what happened that long ago was entirely and still is China's internal matters, and probably decisions made by the government in 1989 has proved to be the right option. Without what government had done, China wouldn't be able to enjoy the stability and the economic prosperity as it is enjoying today. JIM LEHRER: Would your government consider it inappropriate and insulting if President Clinton spoke out about that incident in 1989, when he is there later this month? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : In China we have a high regard and respect for the President of America. The government and people are looking forward to the up-coming visit of President and Mrs. Clinton, and your question I suppose is a hypothetical one. JIM LEHRER: What do you make of the way Tiananmen Square veterans -- in other words people who were involved in the demonstrations, the pro-democracy movement in your country, who have come to the United States -- they are treated as heroes. They are given great respect, interviewed widely on this television program and other television programs--does that offend you? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : Some of the people are here, I know, and I know some of the Americans look at them from their own perspective, and about democracy, itself, we believe we have a different understanding or interpretation in China. We do attach great importance to people's political and democratic rights, however, we also believe that either personal or individual freedom of democracy should not go against law, should not go counter to the provisions of the country's constitution, and should not go against other people's basic interests. JIM LEHRER: Many of these young leaders have said that they intend to return to China someday and to lead the pro-democracy movement in a way that changes human rights and the basic rights of all Chinese citizens. Do you see that happening? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : There is a quite shocking lack of understanding about China's position on human rights. I believe both of our governments and the peoples have at least one common ground on human rights: that is, we both attach great importance to the issue. The Chinese government attaches great importance to its people's political rights, economic rights, and social rights. Also, for China, the government, the Chinese people, themselves, have after many, many centuries of effort have realized the goal of producing enough to feed ourselves, our one point two billion people. This is one of the most fundamental rights of people . . . and this by itself is a good contribution to the human rights cause of the whole world. At the same time we are strengthening and focusing the rule of law to make sure that all people, all citizens can have freedom in their religious beliefs and other rights. So the issue is always maybe-is not very much relevant. JIM LEHRER: To the people of China? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : Yes. JIM LEHRER: Even though it may seem very relevant to the people of the United States? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : I believe you're referring to some of the American people, not all of them. Those who know China better will have a different view.
	China and Pakistan.
	JIM LEHRER: Another issue: China has helped Pakistan become a nuclear power. Why did you do that? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : That is not true. That allegation has nothing true in it, and such a fabricated story being spread out is not at all useful for people to know the true reality, and it is not useful to the really good understanding of our people. JIM LEHRER: China provided no nuclear know-how, no nuclear technology in any way to Pakistan? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : China is a party to the NPT. China -- JIM LEHRER: That's the Nonproliferation Treaty. AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : That's right And China has also signed the CTBT. China has always serious and conscientious in making its commitment good. We have never gone back on our international commitment. JIM LEHRER: So that's a false accusation when somebody says China helped Pakistan develop its nuclear capability? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : That's right. It is entirely false, groundless, and maybe also a story cooked up with ulterior political motives. JIM LEHRER: By whom? Who would have those? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : Those story tellers. JIM LEHRER: Story tellers. India said one of the reasons they exploded their -- made their nuclear tests was because they feared China as a possible -- not necessarily invader or anything like that, but in order to have some kind of parity with China they needed to have a nuclear capability. What's your response to that? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : I believe no other country knows better than China, the Chinese government and people have been making great efforts in improving relations with that country, with India, and that accusation of China as constituting a threat to India is entirely groundless. And the Indians, I believe, know themselves very well that they are only trying to find a convenient pretext and excuse for the nuclear tests they carried out five times in two days, defying the common efforts and the common opinion of the whole world in the field of non-proliferation and in maintaining world peace and regional stability.
	American views.
	JIM LEHRER: Finally, Mr. Ambassador, putting all these things together, the non-proliferation issue, the human rights issue, Tiananmen Square, the President's coming there -- all the other things, plus satellite technology, a lot of other things -- we could be talking about an investigation going on, allegations that your government tried to put money into U.S. political campaigns. What should the average American think about China now? How should we view you and your country? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : Well, to begin with, let me say very briefly that some of the stories you have touched upon, such as the dimension the financing of American election-the so-called political contribution--are not only untrue but also sound very absurd to a Chinese ear. We have never interfered with any foreign country's domestic politics, including the elections. To say that is really going too far. I really deny the founder or the teller of such a story's imagination, however, this kind of imagination has been put to a wrong use and for the wrong purpose. The same thing is true with the story of the secret passing or illegal passing of high tech to China's rocket corporations, which helped to launch American made satellites--the Chinese are also feeling hurt by the arrogance of the people who spread such an accusation. The Chinese scientists and engineers--by relying on their own efforts-have developed such rockets which are capable to launch satellites. I don't think it's a good thing that people should indulge themselves in cooking up and fabricating such stories, because they are not useful, they are not true, and the other day I was kidding with some friends here that if we lat such a trend of thinking go on and on, some day they might tell us that it was they who had passed the technology to the Chinese as how to make and use chopsticks. JIM LEHRER: I see. What does all this add up to? Why is all this happening? If there's no truth to any of these stories about your country, whether it's Pakistan or whether it's technology or whether it's campaign financing or any of these other things, what's happening? AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : This is a very good and important question. I hope both of us-both of our peoples will spend some time to look into the matter to find the right answers. My primary impression is that first there is a lack of understanding. That's why we are welcoming American friends to go to China to see the real thing there. We are also welcoming dialogues between our two sides, and two, I wouldn't like to say that without being asked, that is--some of the people here have special political purpose of drawing China and drawing the Sino-American relationship into America's domestic politics. Maybe the second point is more basic cause for the coming up of such a number of ill-founded stories. JIM LEHRER: Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much. AMBASSADOR LI ZHAOXING : I thank you. It's a pleasure to talk to you. And it's a pleasure to have such a good dialogue.