GOING NUCLEAR May 28, 1998 The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer Transcript

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Pakistan responded to India's nuclear tests of two weeks ago by detonating five nuclear devices of its own. Following a background report, the Pakistani ambassador to the United States defends his country's actions. Also, India's ambassador to the U.S. offers his country's response and National Security Advisor Samuel Berger presents the American reaction. View a timeline of the India-Pakistan conflict.

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A RealAudio version of this segment is available. NEWSHOUR LINKS: A timeline of the India-Pakistan conflict. May 28, 1998 The Indian ambassador discusses Pakistan's tests. May 28, 1998 Samuel Berger presents the American view. May 26, 1998 Pakistan gears up nuclear tests of its own. May 14, 1998 Jim Lehrer asks a Pakistani government official if a nuclear arms race is on the way between his country and India. May 13, 1998 India conducts a second round of nuclear tests. May 12, 1998 A discussion on India's decision to test nuclear weapons. Online Forum: Read what some experts had to say about the recent elections in India. March 19, 1998: A discussion on how to reduce nuclear proliferation. March 4, 1998 The BJP wins elections in India. January 6, 1998 President Clinton announces a new strategy to deter nuclear war. December 4, 1997 Two retired generals call for an immediate reduction of nuclear arms. August 17, 1997 Pakistan turns 50. Browse the NewsHour's coverage of the military and Asia. OUTSIDE LINKS: The Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Organization .

CHARLES KRAUSE: While the rest of the world reacted with deep concern, Pakistanis reacted with pride today to the announcement that their nation had joined the nuclear club. Pakistan's five underground tests were conducted this morning in Pakistan's southwestern province of Baluchistan.

Pakistan responds.

They followed by two weeks five similar tests carried out by India, Pakistan's neighbor and historic enemy. The Indian tests were carried out in the desert state of Rajasthan, close to the Pakistani border. They followed by nearly a quarter century the last Indian tests conducted in 1974. Today, in a speech televised throughout Pakistan, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif told his people that the Pakistani tests had now settled the score with India.

NAWAZ SHARIF, Prime Minister, Pakistan: (speaking through interpreter) Today God has given us the power in order to save our kingdom from danger. It was the final solution, which we had to do. In 1974, when India first carried out an atom bomb explosion, we did not have all the know-how then. This nuclear test saved us from a new danger.

CHARLES KRAUSE: Sharif also announced that Pakistan's Ghauri missiles--first tested just last month--are already being capped with nuclear warheads. With a range of 900 miles, the missiles have the capability of striking most parts of India. In New Delhi, India's prime minister told parliament that the Pakistani tests had vindicated India's decision to test its own nuclear weapons earlier this month. But opposition legislators accused the government of setting off a nuclear arms race on the subcontinent. In Washington, the United States quickly condemned Pakistan's actions. President Clinton had urged Sharif repeatedly and as recently as midnight last night to refrain from today's tests.

"Two wrongs don't make a right."

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I deplore the decision. By failing to exercise restraint in responding to the Indian tests, Pakistan lost a truly priceless opportunity to strengthen its own security, to improve its political standing in the eyes of the world. And although Pakistan was not the first to test, two wrongs don't make a right. I have made it clear to the leaders of Pakistan that we have no choice but to impose sanctions pursuant to the Glenn Amendment, as is required by law.

CHARLES KRAUSE: Today's sanctions are in addition to earlier sanctions imposed in 1990 when the Bush administration cut off all military and humanitarian aid to Pakistan because of intelligence that Pakistan was then developing a nuclear bomb. An impoverished, predominantly Muslin nation of 140 million people, Pakistan depends heavily on international assistance and loans from the IMF and the World Bank, which may now be cut off as a result of the sanctions announced at the White House today. President Clinton was not the only international leader to deplore today's tests. At a NATO meeting in Luxembourg, NATO Secretary General Javier Solana said the tests, both in India and now in Pakistan, could affect NATO's calculations of threat, its strategy, and future policy on weapons of mass destruction.

JAVIER SOLANA, NATO Secretary-General: We strongly condemn both India's and Pakistan's nuclear tests, which have profound implications for the security of the region and beyond that.

CHARLES KRAUSE: British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook also condemned the tests, urging both India and Pakistan to decease further testing and deployment of nuclear weapons. But just as they were reluctant to endorse U.S. sanctions punishing India two weeks ago, few U.S. allies were ready to join the United States today in posing economic sanctions on Pakistan.

JIM LEHRER: Now, Pakistan's ambassador to the United States, Riaz Khokhar. Mr. Ambassador, welcome.

AMB. RIAZ KHOKHAR, Ambassador, Pakistan: Thank you.

JIM LEHRER: First, late today there was word from your country that your president has declared a state of emergency. Why did he do that?

AMB. KHOKHAR: Well, this emergency is very limited. It's, in fact, limited to certain financial measures that we require to take at home, in view of the international sanctions that we're expecting. And it's-it's like imposing sanctions on yourself.

JIM LEHRER: I see. It's not a military-

AMB. KHOKHAR: Not a military-

JIM LEHRER: It's not a military statement.

AMB. KHOKHAR: Definitely not.

JIM LEHRER: All right.

AMB. KHOKHAR: Definitely not.

JIM LEHRER: What is your response to what President Clinton-we just heard President Clinton say that Pakistan lost a truly priceless opportunity to strengthen its own security, to improve its political standing in the eyes of the world.

Pakistan's tests: A "painful" decision.

AMB. KHOKHAR: Well, President Clinton has been extremely gracious. He's been on the telephone with our prime minister on five occasions. We really appreciate his effort, his concern. But I regret to say that we, in our wisdom, felt that the international community had not really done enough to address India on this issue when they exploded the devices on the 11th and the 13th. And we definitely felt very threatened, because not only did India explode these devices, but since the explosions, the Indian leadership had made very, very threatening statements against Pakistan. So what we have done is we've really acted in our supreme national interest. And I can tell you this has been a very painful and a very difficult decision for Pakistan.

JIM LEHRER: Your prime minister said the score has now been settled with India. What did he mean by that?

AMB. KHOKHAR: Well, what he's really trying to say is that the strategic balance that India claimed had been greatly altered in its favor-I think this is what he's trying to say-that the strategic balance or the balance remains the same.

JIM LEHRER: Does Pakistan plan to do any more testing in the near future?

AMB. KHOKHAR: Well, I have no reasons to say that we are. I have no information on that. They're not likely to.

JIM LEHRER: Not likely to.

AMB. KHOKHAR: Yes.

JIM LEHRER: There was a wire report that just moved, quoting an unnamed American official as saying they had intelligence information that Pakistan was preparing to, in fact, do another explosion in the next few days.

AMB. KHOKHAR: Well, intelligence information, as you know, can also be wrong.

JIM LEHRER: Right. Right. But you don't have-you don't know.

AMB. KHOKHAR: I have no information, no.

JIM LEHRER: Tell us again now why Pakistan felt it was threatened by what India did and the only way to meet that threat was to do these five explosions of your own.

AMB. KHOKHAR: We had warned the international community that India was embarking on this program of nuclearization. We had warned the international community and several letters were addressed, and I'm sure the adviser will be able to confirm that we had addressed a letter to President Clinton and other heads of state. But since the explosions, as I mentioned earlier, if you just get along the statements that the Indian leaders have made -- first of all, saying that there's -- the strategic balance has been changed and that Pakistan must understand it'll have to change its policies in regard to Jammu and Kashmir, and that India will use its nuclear weapons -- these are the sort of statements that came out-and that Pakistan will be taught a lesson-now, we have suffered Indian aggression in the past. As you know, in 1971, we were dismembered. We are a small country. We are 1/8 the size of India. And we have very genuine security concerns. We don't have any security concerns with any other countries, except India. And we felt that the international community had not really done enough to meet either the challenge that the Indian nuclear explosions had forced, or for Pakistan, itself.

JIM LEHRER: Now, the leadership of India said today that what you did confirmed their fears. In other words, they did their explosions because Pakistan, your country, was, in fact, developing a nuclear program, and the fact that you did these explosions confirms that they were right.

"...our nuclear program is not designed against anybody else."

AMB. KHOKHAR: Sir, the Indian nuclear program has been well known since 1974. They've been at it since 1974. And even in 1974, there was absolutely no reason for India to nuclearize, because 1971, Pakistan was dismembered, and we were still in the process of recovering, and they came up with this precedent for South Asia. Now, we have all along felt insecure -- we -- our nuclear program is not designed against anybody else. It's merely in the context of self-defense.

JIM LEHRER: But you have been developing a nuclear program all along, or you wouldn't have been able to do what you did today.

AMB. KHOKHAR: Well, the fact that we have exploded devices, well, of course, confirms that we have a nuclear program.

JIM LEHRER: Sure.

AMB. KHOKHAR: And we did it purely in response to India.

JIM LEHRER: The crucial question, I think, tonight, Mr. Ambassador, is: What now? What happens now? Is Pakistan prepared to sit down with the leadership of India and say, okay, let's figure out a way not to use these against each other?

"We are ready to engage not only with India but also with the international community."

AMB. KHOKHAR: We are ready to engage not only with India but also with the international community. We invite the international community to take an initiative to get India and Pakistan on a conference table. We have, in fact, even offered a non-aggression pact to India. Let us settle the problem of Jammu and Kashmir and sign a non-aggression pact. And I think we are prepared to look at any international proposals for nonproliferation. We are ready to look at it. We're not against it. We are committed to the policy of nonproliferation the prime minister has reaffirmed in a statement that he made to the nation only this morning.

JIM LEHRER: But short of that, unless somebody gets together soon, do you fear there could be a nuclear confrontation as a result of what's happened the last two-

AMB. KHOKHAR: There is really no need for nuclear confrontation at all. There is no need for a nuclear race either. We didn't start it. It's India that brought out the genie from the bottle. We didn't bring it out.

JIM LEHRER: Who's going to put it back, Mr. Ambassador?

AMB. KHOKHAR: Well, I think we're ready to look at the various options that are available. They have talked about a treaty for first non-use. Well, frankly, what's missing between India and Pakistan is trust and confidence. You know, I give you an example that we signed a chemical weapons agreement with India bilaterally. And that time they declared they didn't have any chemical weapons, but subsequently, when they were signing the international convention, it was quite clear that they had chemical weapons too. So, you know, it's a question of trust and confidence. And we invite the international community and particularly the United States -- friends of India and Pakistan -- to put us together. And we are ready to sit down and negotiate it.

JIM LEHRER: Do you have a feeling it's going to happen?

AMB. KHOKHAR: Well, that's another matter. We are ready. As far as we are concerned, we are ready to look at it.

JIM LEHRER: And you sit down-because you've done the five -- five explosions, you feel when you sit down at that table, you sit down as an equal with India?

AMB. KHOKHAR: It's not a question of being equal or unequal. We have simply responded to India, because we felt threatened. And let me put it this way: If you recall 1962, that was the only time that the United States was really threatened by the Soviet Union, when it flaunted nuclear weapons in Cuba. You were willing to take several measures for your security. That's exactly what we've done. We've just taken measures for our security. That's all.

JIM LEHRER: That's all. Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much.

AMB. KHOKHAR: Thank you.

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