Clinton: Pakistan 'Making Progress' Against Extremists

MARGARET WARNER: Secretary Clinton, thanks for being with us. Now you've been to Pakistan many times but never as secretary of state, never at such a volatile time.

SECRETARY OF STATE HILLARY CLINTON: Right.

MARGARET WARNER: Was there anything unexpected that you found here? Something that you didn't imagine?

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, Margaeret it, it wasn't that I found here anything unexpected. It was that I knew before I came that we had our work cut out for us, that there was a level of mistrust and misunderstanding that I wanted to tackle head-on. I have a great deal of admiration for the culture and the history and the struggle of the people of Pakistan. But what became clear in the time that I've been secretary of state, is that there was an enormous number of questions about our motive, our intention, our actions that had been built up over the last eight years. So I wanted to try to address those and go out and meet people and hear and listen and have a really, a good dialogue which I think we've had.

MARGARET WARNER: But it is, you say you know you're saying to all these audiences, let's turn the page.

HILLARY CLINTON: Right.

MARGARET WARNER: And they're saying, "No, let's read some old chapters first."

HILLARY CLINTON: That's true. Well but I think that's a kind of necessary stage to go through because I don't think anybody from our government has really ever done this in recent memory, at least that's what I'm told where you subject yourself to the pent up feelings of the Pakistani media, the Pakistani young people, of the business community, of women, of you know all kinds of audiences. And it, it is what I try to do in every place that I go, but it was especially important to do here. We will not always agree. We have different perspectives, experiences, historical, you know understandings of, of how we got to where we are, right now. But I think it is important for me to be seen as really building the confidence and the trust that we need to have between our two countries to pursue our mutual interest.

Kerry-Lugar bill

HILLARY CLINTON: No, but what I am saying and, and I think the context is as you portrayed it, I respect their perceptions. Whether or not they comport with what I believe to be the reality of their not trusting us on a range of issues. And I have been very willing to entertain every single question that was on their minds about the Kerry-Lugar bill, about other kinds of actions that they see us taking which they either don't understand or they're not sure they agree with. But in order to have the kind of partnership that we are seeking between our two countries, the trust deficit goes both ways.

We have some questions of our own. And we also have some points we'd like to make about your economic development. Why, as a country like Pakistan, that has so many talented people and so many successful and affluent people, you know not doing more to deal with the poverty that unfortunately marks the lives of the vast majority of Pakistanis. So I thought it was a rich and important exchange of views.

And I think we're laying questions on the table, but when it comes to what Pakistan is now doing in the war against the extremists, al-Qaida and their allies, I'm very encouraged. I think that the questions that have been raised in the past about their capacity and their resolve are being answered by the actions that they've taken in Swat and Waziristan, but clearly this is just the beginning and it is not just about the Pakistani Taliban who are threatening their state and attacking their institutions.

MARGARET WARNER: Which is their interest at the moment.

HILLARY CLINTON: Which is their interest and it needs to be their priority. I fully accept that. But if you believe as I do that increasingly these extremist groups are part of a syndicate that al-Qaida is a major player in that syndicate that they provide training and direction and funding and encouragement to the kinds of attacks that go on on both sides of the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, then you cannot just say that you are finished when you clear our South Waziristan because these groups are still connected and they have to be defeated.

Waziristan operations

HILLARY CLINTON: Well I think they're doing both. I mean, I mean they are very committed to seeing through this action in South Waziristan. And they gave me a briefing on where they are in their campaign against the Taliban.

MARGARET WARNER: Which is . . .

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, they're making real progress, and I think that, you know, the sacrifice that the Pakistanis have undertaken, the loss of life that they are suffering, is, is the clearest evidence of their, of their seriousness and their resolve. But the, the terrain on which these battles are fought obviously is extremely challenging, and there will be certain elements that will escape just as they escaped from the United States military in Afghanistan back in '01 and '02. So that's why you have to clear and hold the ground you take. But they also know that the attacks will continue unless they continue to go after these organizations and, you know, I am very convinced that they understand that and they will.

MARGARET WARNER: But then you're talking about you would like them to also be willing to go into more settled areas like in Quetta where many of the top Taliban and al-Qaida figures are believed to be?

HILLARY CLINTON: I think ultimately that is an inescapable responsibility that we see has to be met. Wherever they are the fact that they can still operate freely, that they can still communicate and direct actions, not only in Pakistan and Afghanistan, but elsewhere in the world, you know we've just had some arrests in our own country of people who are clearly connected to al-Qaida and other extremist groups here in Pakistan. So we want to keep the pressure on because I don't think any of us, including Pakistan can be successful in defeating this extremist threat unless we do take out the continuing leadership that is present here, present in Afghanistan, other places.

U.S. plans in Afghanistan

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, they are very knowledgeable about the challenges in Afghanistan so what we discussed in great detail was the perspective that they bring to the decision that President Obama has to make. But at the end of the discussion what is clear is that we're in this together. We have a common threat and a common enemy. The best way to achieve our strategic goals of defeating al-Qaida and their extremist allies and you know creating a political situation that permits the reintegration of the foot soldiers back into society and undermines their commitment to militancy, is really the strategy on both sides of the border and how best to achieve that is what we discussed.

MARGARET WARNER: I guess what I'm asking is did they tell you that they're worried about reports that the President may be settling on a strategy of protecting mostly the population areas, the settled areas in Afghanistan? I mean do they feel that will leave them exposed on the border?

HILLARY CLINTON: No, there was a story circulating that the United States and our, our ISAF allies had removed a lot of our troops from the border and that was raised with me on several different occasions by the press and, and by officials. But that's not the case and they knew, they know that that we have actually beefed up our border but we're changing the way that we are taking on the border responsibilities. These small isolated outposts that have been tried are not the best way so there's going to be some consolidation, some more patrolling, but they're actually more troops, not fewer.

MARGARET WARNER: Are you saying that whatever the new strategy is, there will be forces maintained along that border?

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, there will be a continuing joint effort by the Pakistanis and the American and our allies and the Afghan security force. I mean remember part of what we are looking to do is to build up a more robust and effective Afghan security force that can be patrolling their own border eventually. And that will be done in several different ways and we discussed that last night because you know in, in this very rugged terrain eventually local people have to believe it is in their interest to protect themselves.

MARGARET WARNER: But are American boots going to remain on the ground in the border area?

HILLARY CLINTON: Oh yes, of course, but you know what numbers and where, that's up to our generals to determine.

MARGARET WARNER: And the president.

HILLARY CLINTON: Of course, the president, but, but the president is not going to micromanage what our generals do. The president's going to say, here's our strategic objectives, here's what is needed for us to meet the mission we have. Here are the troops that you're going to be given. Here are the civilians and the political strategy that we are integrating, but you know he's not going to be looking at a map and saying do you have two people there and four people there? That's not the way it's done.

MARGARET WARNER: Finally, you said yesterday that the president will make his decision, announce his decision when the election in Afghanistan is quote finally resolved.

HILLARY CLINTON: Afterwards, right.

MARGARET WARNER: That took weeks and weeks and weeks last time. Are you saying he's going to wait till all the challenges are settled?

HILLARY CLINTON: Well no, I think, I just said he's going to do it after the election, so when that is is up to the president. The president said we will reevaluate this after the election. It's just that the election hasn't gotten over yet, so you know there'll be a runoff on Nov. 7 and hopefully the results will be in sooner than they were from the first round, but since our strategy really does take into account what the Afghans themselves are willing to do, not just in Kabul, but certainly Kabul is a big piece of this and the president, his cabinet, however that turns our governors, district leaders all kinds of responsible parties, you know we want to make sure that they know what we're expecting of them and it's been a little difficult to present that until we know exactly how this is turning out.

MARGARET WARNER: Madam Secretary, thank you so much.

HILLARY CLINTON: Thank you, Margaret.