NOBEL PEACE PRIZE

October 11, 1996
		In 1996, the Nobel Peace Prize committee chose East Timorese Bishop Carlos Ximenes Belo and Jose Ramos-Horta, both leaders in East Timor's resistance effort against Indonesia for 20 years. An Indonesia expert discusses the award's significance.

Online NewsHour Special Report: East Timor Independence Oct. 25, 1996: Online Forum: Nobel Peace Prize winner Jose Ramos-Horta responds to viewer qestions. July 8, 1999: A discussion on Indonesia's election process. June 2, 1998: Indonesia attempts to form a democratic government. May 22, 1998: A discussion on changes in the Indonesian government. May 21, 1998: Indonesia in the wake of Suharto's resignation. May 20, 1998: Should Suharto resign? May 19, 1998: Suharto announces plans to step down. May 15, 1998: A report on the riots in Jakarta. May 14, 1998: Students protest against Suharto. March 10, 1998: A discussion on Indonesia's economic importance. Feb. 27, 1998: Can Indonesia restore confidence in its currency? Jan. 9, 1998: Indonesia's stock markets take a tumble. Nov. 13, 1996: A discussion with Jose Ramos-Horta. Browse the NewsHour's coverage of Asia.   United Nations Mission in East Timor Indonesian Embassy in Washington East Timor Action Network U.S. Embassy in Jakarta Carter Center	CHARLES KRAUSE: The prize went to two men who have been involved in the struggle over an Asian territory known as East Timor. Its recent history has been tied to that of Indonesia.
	An Asian powerhouse
	CHARLES KRAUSE: For many Americans, Indonesia is symbolized by the resort paradise of Bali. For American strategic interests, Indonesia is far more important than a south sea island vacation destination. The world's fourth largest country, Indonesia is a nation of almost 200 million people scattered across more than 13,000 islands. It's a strategic crossroads with vast oil reserves and also a top trading partner for the United States. Since Indonesia gained its independence from the Netherlands in 1945 and throughout the Cold War, U.S. Presidents have courted Indonesian leaders to make sure that Indonesia stayed out of Communist control, and the U.S. even looked the other way in 1975, when Indonesia seized and occupied the former Portuguese territory of East Timor. Tens of thousands in East Timor have died during the occupation which continues to draw protest from western human rights activists and some European governments. In what was regarded as an effort to bring international attention to East Timor, the Nobel Committee awarded the peace prize to two Timorese activists. Their exiled resistance leader, Jose Ramos Horta and Roman Catholic Bishop Carlos Belo. Indonesia's foreign minister criticized the award. ALI ALATAS, Foreign Minister, Indonesia: I am quite astounded at the choice of the Nobel Committee this time, and I wonder what the criteria are for such a choice. CHARLES KRAUSE: But in East Timor and elsewhere, Bishop Bela and Ramos-Horta were congratulated by their supporters as the world suddenly began to focus on the 20-year struggle in their homeland.
	The occupation of East Timor
	CHARLES KRAUSE: Now for more, we go to Professor William Liddle of Ohio State University. He's a political scientist specializing in Indonesia, Southeast Asia, and politics in the developing world. Prof. Little, thank you for joining us. WILLIAM LIDDLE, Ohio State University: Thank you. CHARLES KRAUSE: Clearly, East Timor is not a dispute which many people know very much about. How did it begin? WILLIAM LIDDLE: Well, it began as your film clip showed in the early 1970's, and I think we have to start out by seeing it in the Cold War context of the time. Portugal had a military dictatorship which in the early 1970's was collapsing, and nationalist leaders in Portuguese colonies all over the developing world took advantage of that situation. So in East Timor, which was one of the Portuguese colonies, you had three or more anti-Portuguese groups which emerged in this period trying to figure out how to take power. And the Indonesian government at that time was really reacting to that situation, and they reacted to it as I started out by saying in a Cold War context. And what I mean by that is that this was 1975. Saigon had fallen. Cambodia had fallen, and the Indonesian government, which itself had come to power in the anti-Communist--in the anti-Communist movement, saw the victory of the Communists in Vietnam and Cambodia as a potential threat to them, and so they looked at the independence movements in East Timor within this context. The rhetoric of the largest nationalist group was quite leftist at the time and pro-independence, and the fear was that if that group took power in East Timor, East Timor became independent, that it might even ally itself with Vietnam and become a part of the Communist bloc. The language that was used at the time was that--by the Indonesia government--was we're not going to allow a Cuba to exist in our hemisphere, so they saw it very much in that kind of Cold War context. That's the beginning of it. CHARLES KRAUSE: But once they--they did that, and they took it over and they occupied the country, they've continued that occupation. Why is that? Why do they want to hold on to East Timor? WILLIAM LIDDLE: Well, there was a general feeling at the time that, that East Timor, which only had a population of about 600,000 people, that it would go quietly, that it would just become a part of the Indonesia archipelago, as for example, Goa in India, the Indian army also marched into Goa, and we don't hear anything about Goa today because the Goans accepted becoming a part of Indian. But East Timorese never accepted becoming a part of Indonesia, and that was the problem, and from that time until now, the independence movement at that time, as a guerrilla force, and the guerrilla action continued quite strong until fairly recently -- that was continually threatening the, the Indonesian military, and so the, the Indonesian military responded to that.
	Ramos-Horta's path to exile
	CHARLES KRAUSE: Is there any way to know how much support the resistance or the independence movement has? WILLIAM LIDDLE: Well, it's very difficult because of course East Timor is a closed territory. I mean, it's possible for outsiders to go there, but, but people are very guarded in what they tell you and so forth. I must say myself as an Indonesia specialist here in our state I get a fair number of East Timor visitors who come through Columbus, and I also when I'm in Indonesia, I get to talk to East Timorese, and my sense is that there is very strong support for independence among the educated East Timorese. That's harder to say about the uneducated. CHARLES KRAUSE: Now, there have been reports by Amnesty International and other groups of widespread human rights abuses in East Timor. From your perspective, from what you know, how has Indonesia dealt with the people there since the occupation 20 years ago? WILLIAM LIDDLE: Well, what the Indonesian government has tried to do is pursue a policy of economic development and repression at the same time. They really do this throughout the country. Remember, this is an authoritarian military government. It's the military that took power in the anti-Communist movement in 1965 and 1966. And the military have used a policy of repression against dissenters of various kinds and all through the archipelago. In East Timor this means the independence guerrillas, but at the same time, they've tried to develop the province economically, and this what you hear from Indonesian publicists, and, indeed, it's quite true that economically under the Indonesians, the Timorese have done quite well. So the notion that the Indonesians have is they are developing East Timor as their 27th province, just as they are developing the other provinces, and if there are dissenting movements, then they crush them militarily, just as they do in the other provinces. CHARLES KRAUSE: All right very quickly now, what role has Bishop Belo played in this conflict? WILLIAM LIDDLE: Well, Bishop Belo has been the head of the Catholic Church in East Timor since the early 1980's, since 1983, I believe, and one of the things that's important to know about him is that he reports directly to the Vatican, not through the Indonesian Catholic Church. There is quite a substantial Indonesian Catholic Church, although Indonesia is a Moslem country, it also has a large Catholic and Protestant population, so this is not an issue, it should be added, between Moslems and Christians in Indonesia at all. But Bishop Belo has played a role here as both the spiritual leader and the kind of political leader of the Catholic community in East Timor, which is the overwhelming majority of the population there. He's been very effective as a kind of middle-of-the-road figure, somebody who tries to protect his people but at the same time is willing to make compromises upon occasion with the Indonesian government. CHARLES KRAUSE: Very quickly, do you think the award of the Nobel Prize today will have an impact on the conflict or the resolution of the conflict? WILLIAM LIDDLE: Well, that's really my hope. I think that what has happened here is that some new political resources have been given to the Timorese, uh, movement, and my hope is that in international forum--now the Indonesian government will feel more pressured to deal on a more equal basis with the East Timor and that maybe we'll get at least a little breathing space for the East Timorese. I think independence for them is probably out of the question, at least for a long time to come, but at least a little lifting of the military pressure because Bishop Belo will have a position now that he didn't have before. CHARLES KRAUSE: Professor Liddle, we've run out of time. Thank you very, very much. WILLIAM LIDDLE: You're welcome.