READYING THE TROOPS

September 15, 1999
		After a background report, Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer discusses the mission and makeup of the international peacekeeping force preparing to enter East Timor.

Online NewsHour Special Report: East Timor Independence Sept. 15, 1999: A background report on readying the peacekeeping force. Online Backgrounder: A look at East Timor's stormy history. Sept. 14, 1999: An newsmaker interview with Madeleine Albright. Sept. 14, 1999: An interview with a journalist detained in East Timor. Sept. 13, 1999: Two United Nations representatives discuss the creation of an East Timor peacekeeping force. Sept. 13, 1999: Indonesian President B.J. Habibie says he will allow international forces into East Timor. Sept. 10, 1999: Three experts discuss the international reaction to the militia violence in East Timor. Sept. 9, 1999: Samuel Berger on the East Timor crisis. Sept. 8, 1999: An interview with 1996 Nobel Peace Prize winner Jose Ramos-Horta. Sept. 7, 1999: Two experts discuss the militia activities in East Timor and how Indonesia and the U.N. can end them. Sept. 7, 1999: Indonesia institutes martial law in East Timor. Sept. 6, 1999: The Carter Center's lead vote monitor discusses the post-election violence. Sept. 3, 1999: East Timor chooses independence. Sept. 2, 1999: U.N. workers are killed as militia attacks continue. Sept. 1, 1999: Militias lead an uprising outside the U.N. compound. Oct. 25, 1996: Online Forum: Nobel Peace Prize winner Jose Ramos-Horta responds to viewer questions. July 8, 1999: A discussion on Indonesia's election process. Nov. 13, 1996: A discussion with Jose Ramos-Horta. Oct. 11, 1996: Two East Timorese dissidents win the Nobel Peace Prize. Browse the NewsHour's coverage of Asia.     United Nations Mission in East Timor Indonesian Embassy in Washington National Council of Timorese Resistance U.S. Embassy in Jakarta Carter Center	MARGARET WARNER: Hello, Mr. Foreign Minister. Thanks for being with us. ALEXANDER DOWNER: It's a pleasure. MARGARET WARNER: How quickly are you going to be on the ground, and with how many troops? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, we can start getting people onto the ground at the weekend, and, obviously, the force will build up over time. But our objective is to make a start this weekend and we're looking at a force of around 7,000, that kind of size. MARGARET WARNER: And what's going to be the makeup of the force?
	The makeup of the force
	ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, it's being led by Australia, but it's going to be supported significantly by the United States and countries like Britain and Canada. But also there'll be a considerable Asian component in it. Some of the ASEAN countries will contribute, countries like Korea. There's quite a long list of countries, which over time will progressively contribute. And we look forward to it having a genuinely multinational character. MARGARET WARNER: The Indonesian government was resisting the idea of Australia leading the force, and yesterday you said you understood their sensitivities about Australia. Explain those sensitivities as you understand them, particularly for an American audience. ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, they have some sensitivities about Australia because remember we are right next door to Indonesia. But we have what Americans would understand as a Western culture and with the activities that have been taking place in East Timor, you can imagine living next door, the public reaction to that. The publicity here in the United States has been quite substantial but in Australia it's been sort of five times as great. A large number of Australian journalists were in East Timor. There was very graphic footage on our television screens night after night, in our newspapers and radio, absolutely full of it. And so there was an enormous public reaction in Australia. And it led to protests outside the Indonesian embassy and Indonesian consulates, and flags were burned and all the sorts of things you see in these kind of environments. And bearing that in mind, and the close relationship that there's been between Australia and Indonesia over the last, you know, particularly last quarter of a century, people in Jakarta reacted fairly negatively to these demonstrations in Australia.
	The rules of engagement
	MARGARET WARNER: All right. Now, what are going to be the rules of engagement for this force? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, the details of the rules of engagement are being worked out, and so that is a matter that the military are working on at this moment. But I can sort of broadly say that this resolution from the Security Council is very strong. It's a so-called Chapter 7 mandate, which does give the multinational force the capacity to enforce the mandate that it's been given; that is, to restore peace and security in East Timor. And it'll have the capacity to do that in a very strong way. And that's what we want. I mean, we don't want a situation, as was the case some years ago, for example, in Bosnia, where you have some U.N. force going in to a relatively dangerous environment but with no capacity to enforce its mandate. It makes a laughing stock of the United Nations, and in an environment like that, it's very bad for the morale of the military. So, here we have a situation where there is a very strong mandate, they're able to take tough action to enforce or to help enforce peace and security and to protect UNAMET and even to, where possible, provide, help provide, humanitarian assistance to people in East Timor. So we're satisfied with - broadly - the mandate that's been given to the multinational force by the Security Council. MARGARET WARNER: Now an adviser to President Habibie of Indonesia, Mr. Anwar, warned today - it's on the wires today - that Australian troops in particular he thinks could be singled out by the anti-independent militias, targeted essentially. There's also a statement from one of these militia groups saying that they were going to eat the heart out of anyone who came to East Timor. How dangerous do you think this mission is? ALEXANDER DOWNER: We have no illusions about that. It's certainly that, and, after all, we wouldn't need armed, an armed multinational force if the situation wasn't dangerous. But there again - bearing in mind the performance of the militias over recent months - you can see that these people are not kindly people. But, nevertheless, this will be a very well armed and a very well protected multinational force and I think you'll find it will be very effective. And we're very confident and positive about it being able to fulfill its tasks. And, inevitably, from some of the sort of hot-headed leaders of the militias you'll get inflammatory comments like the one you quoted, but not for one minute will a multinational force of this kind be intimidated by that sort of language. MARGARET WARNER: Now, there are some estimated 25,000 still Indonesian military there. What's going to be their role? ALEXANDER DOWNER: That figure includes military and armed police. Well, obviously over a period of time there be a downsizing and eventually the withdrawal of the Indonesian military and police. This is a process that's really going to work in two phases. There's the next two months where there will be a continuation of an Indonesian and military and police presence. And then after the Indonesian parliament makes its decision to separate East Timor from the rest of Indonesia, then the Indonesian military and police will downsize very considerably and ultimately withdraw. So in the short-term there will obviously be a requirement for the multinational force and the Indonesian military to work quite closely together. And we're putting in place now mechanisms to make that a cooperative arrangement. And we've had already military- to- military talks with the Indonesians here in New York. And those talks are continuing later today. And so far the talks have been very productive. MARGARET WARNER: But given the Indonesian military's I think now documented role in supporting and certainly not curbing the violence by the militias, how can they play a constructive role now in the peacekeeping? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, I don't know that their role is going to be, if you like, as active as one might hope. That's certainly been the problem up until now, and that's why President Habibie has called in a multinational force to reinforce what has been, frankly, a failure to maintain security in East Timor. So some of the onus here of course will now fall on the multinational force with its very precise and strong charter but the practical point here is there does need to be a cooperative arrangement with the Indonesian military in the short-term. In the medium-term the Indonesian military will withdraw and then a peacekeeping force will replace this multinational force, and I think at that point you'll see the militias sort of fade into the bush. MARGARET WARNER: But for now in this two-month period is there any question that if there's a difference in command between the multinational force's commander on the ground and the Indonesian military, that the international force has top say, first say, if that order prevails? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, of course, the multinational force is driven by the resolution passed by the Security Council early this morning. The Indonesian military have their own command structure. The important thing is that there is a linkage between the two. And it's a frequent and appropriate linkage. And those mechanisms are now being put in place for the military-to-military discussions between the Australians and the Indonesians. So I'm pretty optimistic that that will work quite well. Look, I think at the end of the day, the environment on the ground is going to be completely different with the insertion of this multinational force. And there have been units in the Indonesian military, which have obviously been very close to the militias, the Indonesians say that they're rotating some of those units now out of East Timor. And I hope that's right. But it is important at this stage for me publicly to say that we want there to be effective cooperation between the TNI, that's the Indonesian military, and a multinational force.
	Disarming the militias
	MARGARET WARNER: Okay. And what does happen to the militias? You said you thought they'd fade away but, I mean, many of these are men who have been accused of violence, of killing, burning, looting. What happens to them? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, look, the first task is to restore peace and security in East Timor. And ultimately there will be an effort made by the United Nations to ensure that the militias, as well as FALINTIL, the pro-independence guerrillas - that they are disarmed. And that will have to be done over time. That's not going to happen immediately but over time our expectation is that that will happen. But there have been a number of efforts made by the Indonesians to achieve disarmament and the containment of the weapons of both the militias and FALINTIL - that have been unsuccessful. MARGARET WARNER: But what I'm asking, Mr. Minister, is part of your mission to investigate any members of the militia who have engaged in violence, or is that outside your purview? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, it's not the main charter of the mission, and obviously it's very difficult to sort of set up a kind of forensic policing role of that kind for a military mission. Their mission is very clearly spelled out in a Security Council resolution, although the Security Council, of course, has been deeply concerned by the violence that's taken place up until now. And we would like those who are responsible for the violence and for human rights abuses to be brought to justice, but if you look at the precise charter of this multinational force, then the focus is on the restoration of peace and security. It's on the protection obviously of UNAMET -- the United Nations Mission in East Timor -- and it's to assist insofar as it is able with humanitarian assistance. MARGARET WARNER: And finally, Mr. Minister, I know you have to go, but there has been a lot of editorial comment in your newspapers and a lot of E-mail from our viewers from Australia of disappointment with the U.S. level of involvement, commitment, support, for your efforts. Were you disappointed in the initial U.S. response? ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, I think that in the early days there was a need for greater clarity in what the United States was proposing to do. But I can say that from discussions with our own military people - and this is the important point - they're very satisfied now with the level of support from the United States. MARGARET WARNER: All right. Well, thank you very much, and thanks for being with us. ALEXANDER DOWNER: It's a pleasure.