Online NewsHour: Campaign Fund-Raising Abuse -- March 9, 1998

CAMPAIGN FUND-RAISING ABUSE

March 9, 1998

The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer Transcript

Following the Senate's investigation of campaign fund-raising abuses, the Governmental Affairs Committe issued a final report. After a background report, Jim Lehrer is joined by the Washington Post's Justice Department reporter Robert Suro in a discussion about several campaign-related fronts.

KWAME HOLMAN: Until last week it was the Senate's investigation of campaign fund-raising abuses that attracted the most attention. But on Thursday, the Governmental Affairs Committee officially completed its work by issuing its final report. Chairman Fred Thompson reminded the press the committee's responsibility was limited to trying to find out what happened.
SEN. FRED THOMPSON, Chairman, Governmental Affairs Committee: Because we're not a grand jury, and our primary purpose is not one of making accusations of criminal activity. Ours is trying to disclose information, then handing that information off to the relevant authorities.
KWAME HOLMAN: Among the relevant authorities is a Justice Department task force created specifically to pursue its own campaign fund-raising investigation and any criminal action that might result.
SPOKESPERSON: This is Maria Hsia.
MARIA HSIA: I have done nothing wrong, and I'm prepared to fight.
KWAME HOLMAN: Last month, Maria Hsia was indicted on charges of illegally funneling campaign contributions. Hsia helped arrange Vice President Al Gore's appearance at a Buddhist temple event in 1996 that resulted in donations to the Democratic National Committee totaling $100,000. Three Buddhist nuns told the Thompson committee that Maria Hsia directed them to solicit contributions from monks and nuns attending the event.
SANDY MATTICE, Republican Counsel: (September 1997) And so in some cases at least you told them that you were going to immediately thereafter reimburse them with a check from the temple, right?
VENERABLE YI CHU, Buddhist Nun: (speaking through interpreter) Well, I didn't tell them that it was going to happen immediately, but I determined that for those people who were willing to contribute, I would reimburse them later on.
KWAME HOLMAN: And Charlie Trie also was charged last month with illegally funneling campaign contributions. Trie, a onetime restauranteur in Little Rock, donated $900,000 to the DNC, money allegedly traced to an Asian businessman. Trie also contributed more than $600,000 to President Clinton's legal defense fund, money that was traced to the California Buddhist sect.
REID WEINGARTEN, Trie's Lawyer: Charlie Trie is a good, honorable, and decent man. He never has been a fugitive from justice. He has never served as a spy for a foreign country, and he never intended to corrupt the American political system. Any effort to make him the heavy in this political scandal will fall of its own weight. This is, in fact, a political scandal that's being shoe-horned in the criminal justice system. It has no place being there.
KWAME HOLMAN: And today in Los Angeles Johnny Chung was arraigned on charges of illegally funneling campaign contributions to the Clinton-Gore campaign. Chung, a frequent visitor to the White House, repeatedly was photographed with President Clinton and the First Lady and once escorted a delegation of Chinese businessmen to one of the President's weekly radio addresses. Meanwhile, the Justice Department continues investigations on several other campaign-related fronts.
JIM LEHRER: Now, more from Roberto Suro, Justice Department reporter for the Washington Post. Roberto, welcome. How important a witness could Johnny Chung be?
ROBERTO SURO, Washington Post: Well, that's hard to say. I don't think--he does not appear to have a lot of knowledge of the inner-workings of the DNC. He had limited contact with John Huang, who is the man who was in charge of the Asian fund-raising effort. He has spoken already to the Senate committee, offered his cooperation to them, and they basically said, no thanks, determining that he basically didn't have a lot to add to it. So it's hard to say exactly how far he'll take the Justice Department. They obviously decided it was worth making a deal with him, but they've been very anxious to make a deal with anybody they could.
JIM LEHRER: And the deal they made with him is for leniency, but it's not specific yet, is that correct?
ROBERTO SURO: Right. I mean, as is often the case with these things, his--what exact--what sentence he'll have to serve out will be determined farther down the road after it's become clear what he has to offer, what he'll actually testify to.
JIM LEHRER: Now, this task force, this Justice Department task force is following the bottom-up way of doing things. Explain that, and give some analogy so we can understand it.
ROBERTO SURO: Well, the strategy has begun by getting the cooperation of the straw donors, those nuns you saw just now, who made contributions in their own name and then were later reimbursed. In all three of the prosecutions that have just been referred to they're straw donors that have agreed to cooperate with the government.
JIM LEHRER: These are people who were given money and said, okay, now, you contribute this in your name, and it will be legal because there are restrictions on how much money each individual can give, but it really isn't their money; they get it from somebody else.
ROBERTO SURO: Exactly.
JIM LEHRER: Okay. Right.
ROBERTO SURO: And the next level is these three individuals who are organizing straw donors, or funneling foreign money allegedly into the campaign.
JIM LEHRER: Now, that's Trie, Chung, and Hsia.
ROBERTO SURO: Right.
JIM LEHRER: Right. Okay.
ROBERTO SURO: The next level up would be presumably people either in the White House or at the DNC, the Democratic National Committee, if, in fact, any individuals there acknowledge that illegal foreign money was coming into the campaign and did anything to solicit it or to offer quid pro quos. It's not at all clear that that's happened, and that there's any evidence in that direction, but the question is whether these individuals could carry to that level.
JIM LEHRER: And the kinds of questions then that Chung will be asked, we don't know what the answers are going to be, but the questions will be, all right, did you tell anybody above you what you were doing, did they know about it, did they ask you to do it, that kind of thing, and above them would be officials of the Democratic National Committee, et cetera.
ROBERTO SURO: Right. And Chung had dealings with Don Fowler, who was chairman, and he had--and Richard Sullivan, who's the finance director, and he produced all three hundred and sixty odd thousand dollars, the DNC. What he's already said in interviews makes it clear that they weren't checking real hard at the money. I mean, he made donations when he didn't--money was coming into his bank account and going out the same day in political contributions. They later returned this money once it became known that it was suspect. But not checking real carefully into the source of funds is not necessarily a crime, so the question here is whether, you know, we have a scandal and you have things that are embarrassing already. The question is whether it's going to carry over into real illegalities or not.
JIM LEHRER: And neither Hsia nor Trie have agreed to cooperate, as Chung did today, is that correct?
ROBERTO SURO: That's right. They both, as you saw with their attorneys on the courthouse steps, vowed to fight the charges against them.
JIM LEHRER: And so where do those cases rest, as we speak?
ROBERTO SURO: The cases this summer will be going through discovery, which is the process in which the government shows its cards to the defendants and says this is what the evidence is against you. And depending on how severe that evidence is, it's a time when defense attorneys sometimes may turn to their clients and say, look, now we've got to think about making a deal again. So that could happen this summer, into early September. Both trials are slated to start in early fall. And so there will be a period, you know, when those characters might be in play again, and if they decide not to, to go for a deal, then we'll have trials in the fall.
JIM LEHRER: Now, based on your reporting, is it possible to say whether or not Justice Department task force has an overall destination where it's headed, in other words, they're looking for individuals, are they going after individuals? Are they trying to prove a China connection? Is there any big destination in the sky?
ROBERTO SURO: I don't know. I wish I did, but I don't--I don't know. What we do know is that there are grand juries here in Los Angeles that have remained very active. There are about 120 prosecutors and agents, which is a very sizable investigation, they show no sign of disbanding, they're still working. It's not clear where they're going.
JIM LEHRER: Now, all of the people that we've been talking about up till now have been Democrats. In other words, they raised money for Democratic campaigns, et cetera. What's the task force doing, if anything, on the Republican side?
ROBERTO SURO: Well, there's one big Republican case, and it's a real big one. It's Haley Barbour, former chairman of the Republican National Committee. There are allegations that were raised in congressional investigations, and there's been a lot of grand jury activity about a very complicated financial arrangement in which allegedly again foreign moneys made their way into Republican campaigns. And the issue is basically what he knew of that, whether he knew that there were foreign moneys, what he said to Congress about them. There is testimony before the Thompson committee in which he said one thing, other people said something else, and that's under examination now.
JIM LEHRER: So it may boil down to who do you believe, rather than something other than that?
ROBERTO SURO: That's right, and sort of who knew what, or who was in a position to know what. And my understanding is that no final decisions have been made about whether there will be a prosecution in that case or not.
JIM LEHRER: Do you have the feeling that there is a smoking gun out there that we do not know about thus far based on the Thompson hearings and the Burton hearings, and all the other things that have been reported up till now?
ROBERTO SURO: Well, you--
JIM LEHRER: I mean, in the overall thing, not just Haley Barbour.
ROBERTO SURO: Right. Well, I mean, it's been 16 months since the election. And a lot of people have done a lot of digging. I suppose it's entirely possible that there's a character out there that we know nothing about, that somebody's--that a prosecutor is looking into, but the people who gave money are known. I mean, their names were listed, and a lot of them have been looked at, and you kind of get the feeling that you sort of know what's on the table. I mean, the Thompson committee did its investigation and you think you see the scope of it, but, again, it's possible we're not seeing it.
JIM LEHRER: The big difference, of course, is now there are indictments, but there weren't before the--Congress--
ROBERTO SURO: People tend to talk more when they've been indicted.
JIM LEHRER: Right. Okay, Roberto, thank you very much.
ROBERTO SURO: Thank you.

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