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| TAKING AIM | |
 June 16, 1998 
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The House took the first steps towards investigating the Clinton Administration over the possible transfer of missile technology to China . Following a background report, the chairs of the special committee-- Congressmen Chris Cox (R-CA) and Norman Dicks (D-WA)-- discuss the allegations and the planned investigation.
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Congressman Cox, from your perspective, what exactly is it that you want to determine? REP. CHRISTOPHER COX (R-CA): Well, I think the opening of the segment
here laid it out rather clearly. Our starting point is going to be what
happened and how did it happen in this Loral matter, how did it come
about that, as news reports have it, and this is right now what we're
relying upon, news reports, that information, guidance technology, was
transferred from the United States, from essentially the defense industry,
to the People's Liberation Army with the effect of enhancing both the
reliability and accuracy of Chinese ICBM's. |
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| A national security risk? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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JIM LEHRER: Congressman, if, in fact, these facts are true, would it have resulted in a-I'm trying to find the words here-a national security risk to the United States? In other words, if they had, in fact, transferred this technology, would the United States been in jeopardy as a result of this?
JIM LEHRER: Congressman Dicks, do you see it in those kinds of terms as well, that the United States' national security may be in jeopardy as a result of this?
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| Trying to influence U.S. elections? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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REP. NORMAN DICKS: Well, I think what we need to do is was national security damaged here, was the information so sensitive that it somehow improved these guidance systems, and I think we need to have those facts for the American people. There's been very serious allegations raised here. I think there's another important issue here as well. There has been some concern that the Chinese government was trying to influence the U.S. election and that some political money was through agents put into U.S. political campaigns. I think we need to know about that. I think the American people want to know whether the People's Republic of China is trying to influence American elections. That's something-we know that some money was given to Johnny Chung. We don't have the facts behind that. I think we need to get to the bottom of that as well. JIM LEHRER: Congressman Cox, do you see that as a mandate of your committee, to find out-to get to the bottom of that as well?
JIM LEHRER: Congressman Cox, do you see this as a major investigation where there could be a potential evil deed uncovered, or is this more of an oversight thing, that somebody may have made a few mistakes here, what-what's your attitude as you go into this? REP. CHRISTOPHER COX: Well, I think our attitude going into it-and I'm going to attempt to speak for Norm Dicks and myself here-I think we agree on this-is to find out what happened, not to prejudge it, not to say in advance this is the worst scandal in the history of American national security, or that it was just some honest mistakes. We frankly don't know. That's why we're looking into this, and we've agreed with the Minority Leader, Mr. Gephardt, and the Speaker of the House, Mr. Gingrich, Norm Dicks and I have agreed-and I think most of our colleagues have agreed that there ought to be some place in the Congress where a serious issue like this could get the sober treatment that it deserves. This select committee will cut across the jurisdictions of eight separate standing committees of the House with over 295 members. We hope that this will be the most efficient way in a very short period of time-six months-to get to the bottom of it all.
REP. NORMAN DICKS: Well, I think the fact that this is a national security issue, I can remember Sen. Jackson saying when it comes to national security the best politics is no politics. I've gotten to know Chris Cox better in the last few days. I think we can conduct a serious investigation without partisan rancor. That certainly is my goal. I know it's his. This is a serious matter. We need to look at. We need to be able to report back to the American people in six months and give them the facts, and our conclusions, and I think we can do that without the kind of problems that we've witnessed in the last six months. JIM LEHRER: Congressman Cox, what about Congressman Moakley's fear that this might be designed to make Democrats look bad.
JIM LEHRER: Congressman Dicks, these other investigations have also been marked by accusations that the Clinton White House has not cooperated, has sought to delay, et cetera. You, as the ranking Democrat, have you talked to the White House, can you assure Congressman Cox and the Republicans that the White House is going to cooperate? |
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| White House cooperation . | ||||||||||||||||||||
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REP. NORMAN DICKS: Absolutely. I think the White House believes that the facts are their friends here. They don't believe that they have done anything wrong. They think that they have vigorously pursued Loral and Hughes where they may have been inadvertently possibly some wrongdoing. So the administration doesn't feel that it did anything in this case that would lead anyone to think that they've done anything illegal or improper. So I think they're going to cooperate. We just received some information from the Defense Department about their study. This was a very important report that had been held back because the Justice Department was worried that it would hurt their prosecution, but it's now been received up on Capitol Hill. So I think that indicates that they're going to go-they're going to bend over backwards to cooperate. And they have given me assurances to that effect, and I'm confident that they will. JIM LEHRER: Congressman Cox, are you going to have public hearings?
JIM LEHRER: How long is this going to take? REP. CHRISTOPHER COX: Well, the life of the select committee is coextensive with the life of the Congress that creates it. The 105th Congress will go out of business on January 2nd, so too will our select committee. JIM LEHRER: And you don't have any idea now how many witnesses you may call, or any of that, what kind of staff you're going to have? REP. CHRISTOPHER COX: We don't, in fact. We will have the first meeting-at least the first opportunity for a meeting of our select committee-Thursday evening, something that the resolution does pass the House of Representatives on Thursday, and the speaker and minority leader announce the rest of the membership of this select committee, and because we want to make this a collegial effort, we want to together and talk about these decisions and do them cooperatively, make the decisions cooperatively to the extent we can, I don't want-and I don't think Norm wants here tonight to say this is precisely what we're going to do. We'll talk about that Thursday night, and we'll report back to you as early as we can. JIM LEHRER: A collegial effort, Congressman Dicks? REP. NORMAN DICKS: Yes. I think this is going to be collegial. I think we can work together. You know, as long as the majority wants to keep this on the facts, on the merits, on the substance, and out of politics, we on the Democratic side certainly want to go in that direction. Now, you know, we will be ready if things change, but so far we're off to a great start, and I have no reason to believe that it'll be any different than that. JIM LEHRER: Gentlemen, thank you both very much.
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JIM LEHRER: Now, the two congressmen who will run the select committee,
the chairman, Republican Christopher Cox of California, and the ranking
Democratic member, Norman Dicks of Washington State. 
It is the direct similarity of those ICBM's with rockets that launch
satellites that is at the heart of this problem, and so we have to determine,
first, whether these news reports are accurate. The news media has done
a lot of enterprising work here, but we have to find out what, in fact,
really went on. We're going to get behind the memos, get behind the
conclusions, and find out what occurred. Second, once we know the facts,
we'll have to determine how this could have happened. And only then
could we infer some policy recommendations as the final act of our select
committee. 
REP. CHRISTOPHER COX: Well, there's no question that when ICBM's with
nuclear warheads are targeted on America cities, or, indeed, whether
they were targeted on us or not, if they can reach American cities,
that there is a threat to the national security of the United States.
And one of the things that we should seek to avoid, of course, in any
sensible national security policy is enhancing the accuracy and reliability
of the weapons that might be used against us. And I think that that
goes without saying, that that's a serious problem if, in fact, the
news accounts are accurate. 
REP. NORMAN DICKS: Well, I would say this way-the Chinese Communists
have only a handful of nuclear weapons. The United States still has
a very significant nuclear offensive force with our Trident submarines,
our land-based missiles, and our long-range bombers. So I believe we
have an adequate deterrent. I can't imagine the Chinese launching a
first strike against the United States. Secondly, I believe that there
may have been some technology that was improperly given by Loral and
Hughes to the People's Republic of China. Now the Clinton administration
is investigating that. Loral and Hughes, by the way, made it clear that
they had made a mistake here, and there is a difference of opinion within
the government. The Defense Department says that they gave away sensitive
information that improves the technology of the Chinese. The CIA says
that it doesn't think so. So there's a split of opinion within this
administration. But, Jim, you've got to remember, this whole policy
goes back to Ronald Reagan, when he was president. He approved the idea
that would allow American satellite manufacturers to launch satellites
using Chinese rockets. And I think we need to go back and look at this
entire policy to see if it is still the right thing to do. 
JIM LEHRER: Look, what facts are not known, Congressman Dicks? You just
said there are several things-that the company has admitted this, the
company has admitted that, there's disagreement within the government.
But what is it that you don't know that you want to know? 
REP. CHRISTOPHER COX: Well, there are two aspects to the money that,
for example, Lt. Col. Hughes alleged to have put into the United States
political system. One is that there may incidentally have been a violation
of our campaign finance laws. If that's true, that's a serious problem,
but not one frankly that our select committee is going to inquire into.
On the other hand, the fact that she is an officer of the People's Liberation
Army, that she is an officer of China Aerospace, that she is the daughter
of the-shortly just retired-but shortly ago most senior general on the
Chinese Communist politburo that is of great interest to us. The intelligence
and PLA aspects of this will be within the ambit of our jurisdiction.
JIM LEHRER: Congressman Dicks, there have been some other recent House
investigations that didn't go very well. They were marked by rabid partisanship
and a lot of bickering in public and elsewhere. Congressman Moakley
made reference to that, in fact, today, and I'm sure some others did
as well. Why is your committee going to be any different? 
REP. CHRISTOPHER COX: Well, I think the-in fairness to the ranking member,
Mr. Moakley-I think he was referring to the pitfalls that we should
avoid here in creating the select committee. We had a very good discussion
in the rules committee today, and I think, as a consequence, the procedures
that will guide us in the select committee investigation, will also
serve as a means of avoiding those kinds of problems. We will adopt,
for example, the very same rules that govern our House permanent select
committee on intelligence. We will be handling classified information
in precisely the same way that it is handled on the intelligence committee.
One of our committee members, I have reason to expect, will be the chairman
of the intelligence committee. Norm Dicks is the ranking member on the
intelligence committee. Those procedures, I think, in addition to the
membership, itself, hand-picked by the minority leader and the speaker,
will ensure that we have everything going for us at the outset. 
REP. CHRISTOPHER COX: We will have public hearings. We will also have
executive session meetings and closed meetings, just as the intelligence
committee. To the extent that we are handling secret material, classified
information, naturally we won't be able to do it in public, but we do
have an obligation also to report back to the American people, report
back to the Congress, and explicitly in a resolution that creates this
we have an obligation to report back to the House of Representatives.