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| POWER SHARING | |
 December 6, 2000  |
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How a U.S. Senate with 50 Democrats and 50 Republicans would do business. Senators Harry Reid (D-Nev.), Patty Murray (D-Wash.), Phil Gramm (R-Tex.) and Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) discuss the possibilities.
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Senator Gramm, you were once a Democrat, as quietly as it's kept. What is your sense of what 50/50 governing would mean? |
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GWEN IFILL: Well, Senator Reid, the point that Senator Phil Gramm makes if George W. Bush is the president Dick Cheney is the tie breaker you have a Republican majority. And if Vice President Gore is the president and Senator Joseph Lieberman retains his Senate seat or gives it up and filled by a Republican you still have a Republican majority. How can you press for this kind of power sharing?
GWEN IFILL: Senator Shelby, you also are a former Democrat. Now, when you listen to what Senator Reid just said, how can you make the case to the American people that this Senate is going to be able to get anything done?
GWEN IFILL: Senator Murray, the reason you are even in Washington right now is because you're in the middle of a lame duck session because you couldn't get the budget passed. Do you think that this kind of standoff could continue now that there's an even narrower margin in the Senate?
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GWEN IFILL: Senator Gramm, how do you envision this working - with a one vote majority in each committee? How would that work?
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY: Gwen, if I could interject… GWEN IFILL: I was going to just ask you to respond. Senator Reid.
GWEN IFILL: Senator Shelby, you wanted to say something.
SEN. HARRY REID: The Ethics Committee is divided 50/50. The chairman, co-chairman, Indian Affairs Committee is set up so that you have a chair and vice chair. This is not something that's precedent setting. We've done this before.
SEN. PATTY MURRAY: Well, that's one Congressman talking. I think there are a number of Senators who agree with Harry Reid and I and others who believe that the 50/50 split means that our committees should be 50/50 and that we should share the making of the agenda, the budgets and all the decisions that go in with that. I would agree that if Bush becomes President, certainly Dick Cheney will preside over the Senate and be there to take any tie-breaking votes, but that doesn't occur in committees. In committees we can make it work with 50/50, with the chairmen's working across the aisle to make sure that at least one Democratic Senator is accommodated in order to get a bill out. And I think that is what the message of a 50/50 split is. |
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| An unprecedented Senate | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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GWEN IFILL: Senator Gramm, is there room in this search for some way to accommodate each other for something that goes father perhaps than bipartisanship, something called say constructive partisanship? Is there room for that?
GWEN IFILL: Let's ask Senator Reid, who does speak for Democrats, whether you're willing to filibuster issues or committee organization or control of the Senate in order to get your way.
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| Party switchers? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Shelby, are the Republicans, as Senator Reid says, are you in denial?
SEN. PHIL GRAMM: And that's what they would demand, and we would expect them to get it. If that were the circumstances, they should get it and they would get it, and I don't think we would be doing this. GWEN IFILL: Final - excuse me - SEN. HARRY REID: Let's not do the hypothetical - let's do what is the reality. The reality is it's split 50/50. GWEN IFILL: Final question to Senator Murray: Do you have any fears or expectations of party switches which could tip the entire balance for you?
GWEN IFILL: In the course of this conversation did you get a sense of that's going to happen? SEN. PATTY MURRAY: Well, you only have four members here. And I certainly think are a lot of members who want to show the American public that just because we're divided doesn't mean we can't work together, and I hope we can work things out before January. GWEN IFILL: Senators, I wish you all good luck on that. Thank you very much. |
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GWEN
IFILL: Senator Daschle and the Democrats could actually hold majority
for 17 days in January. While Al Gore is still Vice President, he would
technically be the tie-breaking President of the Senate as well. Joining
us tonight to talk about power sharing in the Senate, are lawmakers
from both parties: Democrats, Harry Reid of Nevada, the number two Democrat,
and Patty Murray of Washington State; and Republicans Phil Gramm of
Texas, and Richard Shelby of Alabama. 
SEN.
PHIL GRAMM: I think would be unworkable. We've organized the Congress
106 times; it's never happened. We've had a tie in the number of members,
the chamber before. That tie has been broken by the Vice President,
so how the new Congress will be organized that there will be an organizing
resolution set up by the majority leader. It's amendable. The Democrats
can offer a substitute. They'll be a vote. If all members of the two
parties vote with their party leadership, there would be a tie vote
that would be broken by the Vice President. I don't believe that all
the Democrats will vote for a resolution trying to impose some sharing
of power, but I believe and am confident that every Republican will
vote so that there is a Republican majority, I believe it will be one
vote on each committee, Republicans will be the chairmen. We will have
a Republican Vice President to vote. It's easy to predict 51 to 50.
That's a majority.
SEN.
HARRY REID: We'll take the hypothetical but we're going to wind up 50/50.
Let's assume for the purposes of this discussion that Bush is going
to be President. If we do that, it takes simple mathematics to understand
that 50 and 50 is equal. Our rules say that in committees it should
reflect what the membership of the Senate is. It's very clear that should
be 50/50. We're going to have 50 Senators that are Democrat and 50 that
are Republicans; we're going to have our on committees equal numbers
of Democrats and Republicans. We feel that there should be equal funding,
equal staffing; we feel the Conference Committee should be equal. We
feel we should have an opportunity to look at who is going to be the
secretary of Senate, who is going to be the sergeant-at-arms. I think
most of us are pleased with Reverend Ogilvie, and he will remain the
chaplain. But I think that Republicans are in denial if they think that
they are going to be in the majority. They're not in the majority, and,
simply stated, in response to my good friend Phil Gramm it's not as
simple as setting it up and having Democrats vote one way and Republicans
vote the other and then see if the Vice President will break the tie.
For organizational matters you have to have enough to... you have to
60 votes. They don't have 60 votes, and there is no way that we're going
to get ten Republicans and they are not going to get ten Democrats to
break that. So we're going to be here in a situation where we have to
do what's fair. The fair thing is to have the Senate Committee structure
divided just like the Senate equally. 
SEN.
RICHARD SHELBY: Well, that's the real question. Will we? I hope we will.
A lot of us are planning to reach across the aisle with our colleagues
and put the interest of the country first. I believe early on it's going
to be whether we can work with our Democratic friends assuming that
Bush is elected President of the United States and sworn in and we have
a 50/50 Senate and Vice President. If we do, we have control, because
he votes in the case of a tie. I think we ought to have equitable sharing.
I think we should look for bipartisan solutions to a lot of things.
But at the end of the day some party has to have a majority of the committee
--even one -- to make the process work. 
SEN.
PATTY MURRAY: It could but doesn't have to. I think if all of us step
back and look at the message voters send us, they didn't send an overwhelming
majority of Democrats or a majority of Republicans. They split us evenly,
50/50, and I think one of the messages we ought to be hearing is that
they want to us work together. They want to us work fairly and they
want us to move forward on the nation's agenda; and we can do that by
splitting our committees 50/50 and by working across the aisle, as Senator
Shelby said, to work with each other on what we agree on. There certainly
will be issues we disagree on and we'll have to set those aside. They
probably won't get done in the next session of Congress. But there is
a lot we can agree on -- on the budget and appropriations bills if we
take the time to listen to what the American people said, which is we
want you to work together.
SEN.
PHIL GRAMM: Well, it's going to work the way it has always worked. In
1953, there was a tie vote on organizing the Senate. The Republican
Vice President broke the tie. The committees were organized with one
more Republican than Democrat on every committee and a Republican was
chairman. What the Democrats are asking for is something that has no
precedent in 106 Congresses. It has never happened before. It is unworkable
government. And let me explain why. If we had an equal number of Democrats
and Republicans on the Banking Committee, I would be chairman but I
would be chairman without any authority. I would have responsibility
without authority -- that is unworkable government. We work on the basis
of precedent, and I don't believe that every Democrat will vote to break
precedent. I don't believe they'll get 50 votes to override a reasonable
organization of the Senate where we end supermajorities on committee.
That's call for by the election, and we will have one more Republican
than Democrat on every committee -- we will have I think a fair sharing
of staff. I think we will be forced to reach across the aisle to pass
anything. But we live on precedent and that's why we have a system that
works.
SEN.
HARRY REID: Thank you very much. Again, Phil and the others -- Republicans
are in denial. Not all Republicans; I had to two senior Republicans
come to me today and say they agree with us - that they feel there should
be a 50/50 sharing. It's not only these unnamed Senators but take for
example, Alan Simpson, one of the persons we respect on both sides of
the aisle. He said last Friday that he felt that the American people
would demand a 50/50 split. He further went on to say that he believed
there should be a consideration to sharing chairmanship -- alternating
a year at a time. This is something that Phil talks about there hasn't
been precedent. This is the first time in the history of the country
that we have had an elected Senate that's evenly divided. We have had
people that have switched parties like my two Republican friends here,
and we've had people become independents that's thrown the make-up of
the Senate off like Wayne Morris did in the 50's, but this is the first
time we've had an elected Senate that's evenly divided. Again simple
math -- 50 Democrats, 50 Republicans - that means equality.
SEN.
RICHARD SHELBY: Yes. I have been on the Intelligence Committee for six
years and chaired the committee for the last four years. We have the
only bipartisan committee that I know of in the House or the Senate.
We try work together. We have a chairman and vice chairman. We reach
across party lines. We look at the interest of the country. I believe,
though, at the end of the day you have to have a one vote majority.
If you don't, the system will not work; it will break down. 
GWEN
IFILL: Let me bring Senator Murray back into this, because on the other
side of the capital, Senator Murray, the House Majority Whip, Tom DeLay,
was - you were talking earlier about the possibilities of bipartisanship
and working together - this is what he was quoted as saying, we have
the House; we have the Senate; we have the White House, which means
we have the agenda. Where do you see room for cooperation there?
SEN.
PHIL GRAMM: Oh, look. I think we're going to have to work together to
pass anything. Any committee chairman is an idiot if they don't write
bills that will get at least one Democrat vote on the floor in the Senate.
But we have a vote on organizing the Senate. The Majority Leader sends
a motion and that motion will go to the floor, the Democrats can amend
it but the idea that the Democrats are going to filibuster and not let
the Senate operate when the vote on that resolution is 51 to 50, I think
in the end will not stand up. I don't speak for any Democrats, but I
don't believe that they have every Democrat member of the Senate that
is willing to vote to break precedent and demand something that has
never existed before. If in 106 Congresses it has never been done before,
I think that's a pretty good indication it probably won't work. In 1953,
there were an equal number of votes for the Democrats and Republicans.
The Republican Vice President broke the tie, and the Republicans organized
the Senate -- a Republican was Majority Leader. The Republicans were
chairmen, and there was one more Republican than Democrat on every committee.
That's the precedent; that's exactly what's going to happen here.
SEN.
HARRY REID: First of all understand that we're not trying to get our
way; we're trying to get what is fair. The Senate is divided with 50
Republicans and 50 Democrats, and it's not a question of getting our
way; it's getting what we feel is fair and what the American public
- certainly they can do that math also. We know the situation in 1953
came about as a result of a Republican Senator switching parties. He
became an independent; then he became a Democrat. That was a different
thing. We have had an elective Senate that's divided 50/50. I would
also say that the burden is on the Republicans. If, in fact the scenario
goes through we have a Republican President and a House that's evenly
divided almost, I think it is very important that they understand and
not be in denial that the Senate is not their majority. I would also
say when we get over this hump I think there is real possibilities of
doing some constructive things for the country. That's divided 50/50.
I think the people of this country in Nevada, Washington, Alabama, and
Texas have said to work together for a change. We can do that with the
Senate divided 50/50.
SEN.
RICHARD SHELBY: Oh, I think absolutely not. But I'll say this publicly
and to the nation, if the Democrats were in the situation that we hope
we will be 50/50 plus a Vice President to break a tie, they ought to
have one vote, in my opinion, on every committee, because they would
have the majority and that's what the precedent that Senator Gramm has
been talking about says. 
SEN.
PATTY MURRAY: I certainly think there is always possibilities but I
doubt if that will happen. I think again we have 50 Republicans, 50
Democrats; we have the reality of that; we have the reality that this
is the first time ever it's been 50 Republicans; 50 Democrats. And we're
going to have to work together to get anything done, and I hope that
our two leaders along with the support of their caucuses can make that
happen for the American public.