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| FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE | |
 October 3, 2000  |
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In the third part of the presidential debate, Governor Bush and Vice President Gore outline their governing philosophies, education plans and leadership in a crisis.
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A battle of philosophies? | |||||||||||||||||||
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MR. LEHRER: New subject. New question. Should the voters of this election, Vice President Gore, see this in the domestic area as a major choice between competing political philosophies? VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Oh, absolutely. This is a very important moment in the history of our country. Look, we've got the biggest surpluses in all of American history. The key question that has to be answered in this election is, Will we use that prosperity wisely in a way that benefits all of our people and doesn't go just to the few? Almost half of all the tax cut benefits, as I said, under Governor Bush's plan go to the wealthiest one percent. I think we have to make the right and responsible choices. I think we have to invest in education, protecting the environment, health care, a prescription drug benefit that goes to all seniors, not just to the poor, under Medicare, not relying on HMOs and insurance companies. I think that we have to help parents and strengthen families by dealing with the kind of inappropriate entertainment material that families are just heartsick that their children are exposed to. I think we have got to have welfare reform taken to the next stage. I think that we have got to balance the budget every single year, pay down the national debt and, in fact, under my proposal, the national debt will be completely eliminated by the year 2012. I think we need to put Medicare and Social Security in a lock box. The governor will not put Medicare in a lock box. I don't think it should be used as a piggy bank for other programs. I think it needs to be moved out of the budget and protected. I'll veto anything that takes money out of Social Security or Medicare for anything other than Social Security or Medicare. Now, the priorities are just very different. I'll give you a couple of examples. For every new dollar that I propose for spending on health care, Governor Bush spends three dollars for a tax cut for the wealthiest one percent. Now, for every dollar that I propose to spend on education, he spends five dollars on a tax cut for the wealthiest one percent. Those are very clear differences. MR. LEHRER: Governor, one minute. GOV. BUSH: The man's practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he's going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965, and we're talking about a massive government, folks. We're talking about adding to -- or increasing 200 new programs -- 200 programs, 20,000 new bureaucrats. Imagine how many IRS agents it's going to take to be able to figure out his targeted tax cut for the middle class that excluded 50 million Americans. There is a huge difference in this campaign. He says he's going to give you tax cuts. Fifty million of you won't receive it. He said in his speech he wants to make sure the right people get tax relief. That's not the role of a president to decide right and wrong. Everybody who pays taxes ought to get tax relief. After my plan is in place, the wealthiest American will pay a higher percentage of taxes than they do today, and the poorest of Americans -- six million families, seven million people -- won't pay any tax at all. It is a huge difference. It's the difference between big, exploding federal government that wants to think on your behalf and a plan that meets priorities and liberates working people to be able to make decisions on your own. VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Let me just say, Jim, you haven't heard the governor deny these numbers. He's called them phony, he's called them fuzzy, but the fact remains: almost 30 percent of his proposed tax cut goes only to Americans that make more than $1 million per year. MR. LEHRER: Let's -- VICE PRESIDENT GORE: More money goes to the -- GOV. BUSH: Wait a minute. VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Can I have a rebuttal here? MR. LEHRER: Sure, but I just want to see if he -- if he buys that, if -- GOV. BUSH: No, here's -- let me just tell what the facts are. The facts are, after my plan, the wealthiest of Americans pay more taxes of the percentage of the whole than they do today. Secondly, if you're a family of four making $50,000 in Massachusetts, you get a 50 percent tax cut. Let me give you one example. The Strunk (ph) family in Allentown, Pennsylvania -- I campaigned with them the other day -- they make $51,000 combined income. They pay about $3,800 in taxes, and -- or $3,500 in taxes. Under my plan, they get a -- $1,800 of tax relief. Under Vice President Gore's plan, they give $145 of tax relief. Now you tell me who stands on the side of the rich. VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Look, he's -- GOV. BUSH: You ask the Strunks (pH). You ask the -- you ask the Strunks (pH). VICE PRESIDENT GORE: If I could get my -- GOV. BUSH: -- whose plan -- it makes more sense. And there's a difference of opinion. He would rather spend the Strunks' (pH)$1,800, and I would rather the Strunks (pH) spend your own money. MR. LEHRER: Do you see it that way, Vice President Gore? VICE PRESIDENT GORE: No, I don't, and I'm not going to go to -- to calling names on his facts; I'm just going to tell you what the real facts are. The analysis that he's talking about leaves out more than half of the tax cuts that I have proposed. And if you just add the numbers up -- he still hasn't denied it -- he spends more money on a tax cut for the wealthiest one percent than all of his new proposals for prescription drugs, health care, education, and national defense combined. Now those are the wrong priorities -- $665 billion over 10 years for the wealthiest one percent. Now -- and as I said, almost 30 percent of it goes to Americans that make more than $1 million per year. Every middle-class family is eligible for a tax cut under my proposal. Let me give you some specific examples. I believe that college tuition, up to $10,000 a year, ought to be tax deductible so middle-class families can choose to send their children to college. I believe that all seniors should be able to choose their own doctors and get prescription drugs from their own pharmacists, with Medicare paying half the bill. I believe that parents ought to have more choices with charter schools and public school choice, to send their kids always to a safe school. I think we need to make education the number one priority in our country and treat teachers like the professionals that they are. And that's why I have made it the number one priority in my budget, not a tax cut for the wealthy. GOV. BUSH: Yeah, let me talk about tax cuts one more time. This is a man whose plan excludes 50 million Americans. VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Not so. GOV. BUSH: He doesn't believe -- well, take, for example, the marriage penalty. If you itemize your tax return, you get no marriage penalty relief. He picks and chooses. He decides who the right people are. It's a fundamental difference of opinion. I want my fellow Americans to hear one more time: We're going to spend $25 trillion -- collect $25 trillion of revenue over the next 10 years, and we're going to -- projected to spend $21 trillion. Now, surely we can send 5 percent of that back to you all who pay the bills. There is a problem -- I want to say something, Jim. Wait a minute. MR. LEHRER: Okay. GOV. BUSH: This man has been disparaging my plan with all this Washington fuzzy math. I want you to hear a problem we've got in America. If you're a single mother making $22,000 a year and you've got two children, under this tax code, for every additional dollar you make, you pay a higher marginal rate on that dollar than someone making $200,000 a year, and that is not right. And so my plan drops the rate from 15 percent to 10 percent and increases the child credit from $500 to $1,000 dollars to make the code more fair for everybody, not just a few. Not just, you know, a handful. Everybody who pays taxes ought to get some relief. |
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| Education and the Federal government | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MR. LEHRER: All right, having cleared that up -- (Laughter) -- we're going to a new question. Education. Governor Bush, both of you have promised dramatically to change dramatically public education in this country. But of the public money spent on education, only 6 percent of it is federal money. GOV. BUSH: Right. MR. LEHRER: You want to change 100 percent of public education with six percent of the money. Is that possible? GOV. BUSH: (Laughs.) Well, I tell you, we can make a huge difference by saying, "If you receive federal money, we expect you to show results." Let me give you a story about public ed, if I might, Jim. It's about Kipp (pH) Academy in Houston, Texas It's a -- it's a charter school run by some people from Teach for America. Young folks that said, "Well, I'm going to do something good for my country. I want to teach." A guy named Michael runs the school. It's a school full of so-called at-risk children. It's how we unfortunately label certain children. It means basically they can't learn. It's a school of strong discipline and high standards. It's one of the best schools in Houston. And here are the key ingredients: high expectations, strong accountability. What Michael says is, "Don't put all these rules on us. Just let us teach and hold us accountable for every grade." And that's what we do. And as a result, these mainly Hispanic youngsters are some of the best learners in Houston, Texas. That's my vision for public education all around America. Many of you viewers don't know, but Laura and I sent our girls to public school. They went to Austin High School. And many of the public schools are meeting the call. But unfortunately, a lot of schools are trapping children in school that just won't teach and won't change. So here's the role of the federal government: one is to change Head Start into a reading program; two is to say that if you want to access reading money, you can do so, because the goal is for every single child to learn to read. There must be through K through two diagnostic tools, teacher training money available. Three, we've got to consolidate federal programs to free districts, to free the schools, to encourage innovators like Michael to let schools reach out beyond the confines of the current structure to recruit teach-for-the-children-type teachers. Four, we're going to say if you receive federal money, measure -- third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade -- and show us whether or not children are learning to read and write and add and subtract, and if so, there will be a bonus plan and -- but if not, instead of continuing to subsidize failure, the money will go to the parent so the parent can choose a different public school. The federal money attributed to the child will go to the parent for public school or charter school or tutorial or Catholic school. What I care about is children and so does Michael Feinberg (pH), and you know what, it can happen in America with the right kind of leadership. MR. LEHRER: Vice President Gore? VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Look, we agree on a couple of things on education. I strongly support new accountability; so does Governor Bush. I strongly support local control; so does Governor Bush. I'm in favor of testing as a way of measuring performance -- every school, every school district, have every state test the children. I've also proposed a voluntary national test from the fourth grade and eighth grade, and a form of testing that the governor has not endorsed. I think that all new teachers ought to be tested, including in the subjects that they teach. We've got to recruit a hundred thousand new teachers, and I have budgeted for that. We've got to reduce the class size so that the student who walks in has more one-on-one time with the teacher. We ought to have universal pre-school, and we ought to make college tuition tax deductible, up to $10,000 a year. I'd like to tell you a quick story. I got a letter today as I left Sarasota, Florida. I'm here with a group of 13 people from around the country who help me prepare, and we had a great time, but two days ago we ate lunch at a restaurant, and the guy who served us lunch got me a letter today. His name is Randy Ellis (sp). He has a 15-year-old daughter named Kaylee (pH) who is in Sarasota High School. Her science class was supposed to be for 24 students. She is the 36th student in that classroom; sent me a picture of her in the classroom. They can't squeeze another desk in for her, so she has to stand during class. I want the federal government, consistent with local control and new accountability, to make improvement of our schools the number one priority so Kaylee (pH) will have a desk and can sit down in a classroom where she can learn. MR. LEHRER: All right. So, having heard the two of you, voters have just heard the two of you, what's the difference? What's the choice between the two of you on education? GOV. BUSH: Well, the first is -- the difference is -- there is no new accountability measures in Vice President Gore's plan. He says he's for voluntary testing. You can't have voluntary testing. You must have mandatory testing. You must say that if you receive money, you must show us whether or not children are learning to read and write and add and subtract. That's the difference. You may claim you've got mandatory testing, but you don't, Mr. Vice President. And that is a huge difference. Testing is the cornerstone of reform. You know how I know? Because it's the cornerstone of reform in the state of Texas. Republicans and Democrats came together and asked the question, What can we do to make our public education the best in the country? And we've done a long way working together to do so, and the cornerstone is to have strong accountability. In return for money, and in return for flexibility, we're going to ask you to show us whether or not -- and we ask them to post the results on the Internet. We encourage parents to take a look at the comparative results of schools. We've got a strong charter school movement that I signed the legislation to get started in the state of Texas. I believe if we find poor children trapped in schools that won't teach, we need to free the parents. I think we need to expand education savings accounts; that's something the vice president's -- the vice presidential running mate supports. No, there's big differences of opinion. He won't support freeing local districts from the strings of federal money. MR. LEHRER: How do you see the differences? VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Well, first of all, I do have mandatory testing. I think the governor may not have heard what I said clearly. The voluntary national test is in addition to the mandatory testing that we require of states -- all schools, all school districts, students themselves, and required teacher testing, which goes a step farther than Governor Bush has been willing to go. Here are -- here are a couple of differences though, Jim. Governor Bush is in favor of vouchers, which take taxpayer money away from public schools and gives them to private schools that are not accountable for how the money is used and don't have to take all applicants. Now, private schools play a great role in our society. All of our children have gone to both public schools and private schools. But I don't think private schools should have a right to take taxpayer money away from public schools at a time when Kaylee Ellis (pH) is standing in that classroom. Let me give you another example. I went to a school in Dade County, Florida where the facilities are so overcrowded that children have to eat lunch in shifts, with the first shift for lunch starting at 9:30 in the morning. Look, this is a funding crisis all around the country. There are fewer parents of school-age children in the vote -- as a percentage of the voting population, and there's the largest generation of students ever. We're in an Information Age when learning is more important than ever. Ninety percent of our kids go to public schools. We have to make it the number one priority: modernize our schools, reduce the class size, recruit new teachers, give every child a chance to learn with one-on-one time in a quality -- high-quality, safe school. If it's a failing school, shut it down and reopen it under a new principal with a turnaround team of specialists, the way Governor Jim Hunt does in North Carolina. Here's another difference. The governor, if it's a failing school, would leave the children in that failing school for three years and then give a little bit of money to the parents, a down payment on a down payment for private school tuition, and pretend that that would be enough for them to go out and go to a private school. It's an illusion. MR. LEHRER: We've got to move on. GOV. BUSH: Well, wait a minute. MR. LEHRER: Thirty seconds, Governor. GOV. BUSH: Okay. MR. LEHRER: Okay. GOV. BUSH: Yeah. First of all, most good governance is at the state level. See, here's the mentality: I'm going to make the state do this. I'm going to make the state do that. All I'm saying is if you spend money, show us results, and test every year, which you do not do, Mr. Vice President. You do not test every year. You can say you do into the cameras, but you don't, unless you've changed your plan here on the stage. VICE PRESIDENT GORE: I didn't say that. I didn't say that. GOV. BUSH: Secondly -- and you need to test every year, because that's where you determine whether or not children are progressing to excellence. Secondly, one of the things that we've got to be careful about in politics is throwing money at a system that has not yet been reformed. More money is needed, and I spend more money. But step one is to make sure we reform the system, to have the system in place that leaves no child behind, to stop this business about asking, "Gosh, how old are you?" If you're 10, we're going to put you here. If you're 12, we'll put you here. And start asking the question, "What do you know?" And if you don't know what you're supposed to know, we'll make sure you do early before it is too late. |
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| Trial by fire | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MR. LEHRER: New question. We've been talking about a lot of specific issues. It's often said that in the final analysis, about 90 percent of being the president of the United States is dealing with the unexpected, not with issues that came up in the campaign. Vice President Gore, can you point to a decision, an action you have taken that illustrates your ability to handle the unexpected, the crisis under fire, et cetera? VICE PRESIDENT GORE: When the action in Kosovo was dragging on and we were searching for a solution to the problem, our country had defeated the adversary on the battlefield without a single American life being lost in combat, but the dictator, Milosevic, was hanging on, I invited the former prime minister of Russia to my house and took a risk in asking him to get personally involved, along with the -- the head of Finland, to go to Belgrade and to take a set of proposals from the United States that would constitute basically a surrender by Serbia. But it was a calculated risk that -- that paid off. Now I could probably give you some other examples of decisions over the last 24 years. I have been in public service for 24 years, Jim, and throughout all that time, the people I have fought for have been the middle-class families. And I have been willing to stand up to powerful interests, like the -- the big insurance companies, the drug companies, the HMOs, the oil companies. They have good people, and they play constructive roles sometimes, but sometimes they get too much power. I cast my lot with the people even when it means that you have to stand up to some powerful interests who are trying to turn the -- the -- the policies and the laws to their advantage. That's -- you can see it in -- in this campaign. The big drug companies support Governor Bush's prescription drug proposal. They oppose mine because they don't want to get Medicare involved, because they're afraid that Medicare will negotiate lower prices for seniors, who currently pay the highest prices of all. MR. LEHRER: Governor Bush? GOV. BUSH: Well, I've been standing up to big Hollywood, big trial lawyers -- what was the question? It was about emergencies, wasn't it? (Chuckles.) I can remember the fires that swept Parker County, Texas. I remember the floods that swept our state. I remember going down to Del Rio, Texas. I've got to pay the administration a compliment -- James Lee Witt of FEMA has done a really good job of working with governors during times of crisis. But that's the time when you're tested not only -- it's a time to test your mettle, it's a time to test your heart when you see people whose lives have been turned upside down. It broke my heart to go to the flood scene in Del Rio where a fellow and his family just got completely uprooted. The only thing I knew to do was to get aid as quickly as possible, which we did with state and federal help, and to put my arms around the man and his family and cry with them. But that's what governors do. Governors are oftentimes found on the front line of catastrophic situations. MR. LEHRER: New question. There can be all kinds of crises, Governor -- a question for you. There could be a crisis, for instance, in the financial area. The stock market could take a tumble. There could be a failure of a major financial institution. What is your general attitude toward government intervention in such events? GOV. BUSH: Well, it depends, obviously, but what I would do, first and foremost, is I would get in touch with the Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan, to find out all the facts and all the circumstances. I would have my secretary of the treasury be in touch with the financial centers -- not only here, but at home. I would make sure that key members of Congress were called in to discuss the gravity of the situation, and I would come up with a game plan to deal with it. That's what governors end up doing. We end up being problem solvers. We come up with practical, common-sense solutions for problems that we're confronted with, and in this case, in the case of a financial crisis, I would gather all the facts before I made the decision as to what the government ought or ought not to do. MR. LEHRER: Vice President Gore? VICE PRESIDENT GORE: Yeah, first I want to compliment the governor on his response to those fires and floods in Texas. I accompanied James Lee Witt down to Texas when those fires broke out, |
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