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| VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE | |
 October 5, 2000  |
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In the second part of the vice presidential debate, Senator Lieberman and Secretary Cheney reflect on political discourse and the situation for minorities and homosexuals.
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Elevating political discourse | |||||||||||||||||||
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MR. SHAW: Time. Mr. Secretary, this question is for you. Washington is a caldron of political bickering and partisanship. The American people, gentlemen, have had enough. How would you elevate political discourse and purpose? MR. CHENEY: Well, the -- I think there are a number of ways to do it. First of all, I agree with your assessment. I think -- I've been out of Washington for the last eight years, Bernie, and spent the last five years running a company, a global concern. And I've been out in the private sector building a business, hiring people, creating jobs. I've got a different perspective on Washington than I had when I was there in the past. I'm proud of my service in Washington for 25 years, but also proud that I had the opportunity to go out and get a different experience. And you're absolutely right. People are fed up. They've had enough with the bickering and the partisanship that seems to characterize the debate that goes on in the nation's capital. I've seen it done differently though. I've seen it done differently in Texas. I've watched George Bush. And one of the reasons I was eager to sign on when he asked me to become his running mate is because I've been so tremendously impressed with what he's done as the governor of Texas. He came in when he had a legislature completely controlled by the other party. He managed to reach across partisan line and unite Republican and Democrats and independents, put them to work to achieve good things for the state of Texas., partly because he didn't point the finger of blame looking for scapegoats. He was quick to share the credit. We ended up, as a result of that activity at the end of his first term, the top Democrat, Lieutenant Governor Bob Bullock, endorsed the Republican governor, George Bush, for reelection. It is possible to change the tone. It is I don't think you can do it, with all due respect to Al Gore, with somebody who's spent all the last 24 years in that Washington environment, and who campaigns on the basis of castigating others, of pointing the finger of blame at others in terms of blaming business or various and sundry groups for our failings. I think you have to be able to reach out and work together and build coalitions. I think George W. Bush has done that in Texas. and can do it at the national level. MR. SHAW: Senator? SEN. LIEBERMAN: Bernie, you're absolutely right, there's too much partisanship in Washington It puzzles me. You know, you'd think that people in public life and politics would want to do what would make them popular, and yet too often people in both parties seem to act in a way that brings down the institutions of government and each of us individually, and it's a shame. I have tried very hard in my career to call them as I see them, and work with colleagues on both sides of the aisle to get things done. And I'm proud of my record in that regard, and I certainly think that would be an asset that I could bring to the vice presidency, should I be fortunate enough to be elected. I mean, in my Senate career I have worked with Bob Dole, for instance, on Bosnia. And I worked with John McCain on cultural values. I worked with Connie Mack on foreign policy. I worked with Don Nickles on the International Religious Freedom Act. If I go on much longer, I'm going to get in trouble with my own party! (Laughter.) But the fact is that that's the way things get done, and I'm proud of those partnerships. And let me say a word about Al Gore. In his years in the House and the Senate, he formed similar bipartisan partnerships. If you look back over the last eight years, the most significant accomplishments of this administration, in which Al Gore was centrally involved, were the result, most of them, of bipartisan agreements. I mean, after all, the Welfare Reform Act, which Al Gore promised to lead the effort on, to get people off of welfare, to set time limits, to get people to enjoy the dignity of work -- that was a bipartisan act that was adopted. The anti-crime act, which has lowered crime or helped to lower Crime more than 20 percent in our country today also was bipartisan. And then the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, which was critical to getting our economy to the point and our government to the point of unprecedented surplus we enjoy today, also was bipartisan, and Al Gore was involved. So I'd say that's exactly the kind of bipartisan leadership that he and I can bring to Washington to get things done. MR. CHENEY: With all due respect, Joe, there is just an awful lot of evidence that there has not been any bipartisan leadership out of this administration or out of Al Gore. And the fact is, the Medicare problems have not been addressed. We've had eight years of promises on prescription drugs with no action. The Social Security problem has not been addressed. Now, we've had eight years of talk and no action. The educational problem has not been addressed. We've had eight years of talk and no action. Now, they have been in a position of responsibility in the white House, the powerful interests, if you will, in Washington, D.C., and they've been unable to work with others. And Medicare is a classic example. You had the Breaux Commission, a good effort at a bipartisan solution for Medicare Whether you bought or didn't buy the answer that was generated, the fact is the administration helped set it up and then pulled the plug on it because they would rather have the issue than they would the solution. This administration has not led from a bipartisan standpoint, and I really do think that Al Gore's record in this regard isn't very good. SEN. LIEBERMAN: Bernie, Dick Cheney must be one of the few people in America who thinks that nothing has been accomplished in the last eight years. I mean, the fact is that promises were made and promises were kept. I mean, has Al Gore -- did Al Gore make promises in 1992? Absolutely. Did he deliver? Big time; if I may put it that way. And that's the record. Look at the -- look at the 22 million new jobs. Look at the 4 million new businesses. Look at the lower interest rates, low rate of inflation high rate of growth. I think if you asked most people in America today that famous question that Ronald Reagan asked, "Are you better off today than you were eight years ago?" most people would say yes. And I'm pleased to say -- see Dick, from the newspapers, that you're better off than you were eight years ago, too. MR. CHENEY: And most of it -- I can tell you, Joe, that the government had absolutely nothing to do with it. MR. SHAW: This question is to you. But -- SEN. LIEBERMAN: I can see my wife, and I think she's thinking, "Gee, I wish he would go out into the private sector." MR. CHENEY: Well, I'm going to try to help you do that, Joe. SEN. LIEBERMAN: No. (Laughs.) No, I think you've done so well there, I want to keep you there. |
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| Racial profiling | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MR. SHAW: Dick Cheney, Joe Lieberman, you are black for this question. Imagine yourself an African American. You become the target of racial profiling either while walking or driving. African American Joseph Lieberman, what would you do about it? SEN. LIEBERMAN: I'd be outraged. It is such an assault on the basic promise that America makes that -- that the law will treat individuals as individuals, regardless of their status -- that is to say their race, their nationality, their gender, their sexual orientation, et cetera, et cetera. And the sad fact is that racial profiling occurs in this country. I have a few African American friends who have gone through this horror, and you know, it makes me want to kind of hit -- hit the wall, because it is such an assault on their humanity and their citizenship. We can't tolerate it anymore. That's why I've supported legislation, in the first instance, in Congress, because it's the most we could get done, to do hard studies, to make the case of the extent to which racial profiling is occurring in our country. But it's also why I'm so proud that Al Gore has said two things. First, we would issue, if we're fortunate enough to be elected, an executive order prohibiting racial profiling; and secondly, the first civil rights act legislation we would send to Congress would be a national ban on racial profiling. It is just wrong. It is un-American, and to think that in the 21st century this kind of nonsense is still going on -- we've got to stop it, and the only way to stop it is through the law. I mean, the law, after all, is meant to express our values and our aspirations for our society, and our values are violently contradicted by the kind of racial profiling that I know exists. And I just had a friend a while ago, Bernie, who works in the government, works at the White House, African American, stopped, surrounded by police, for no other cause that anyone can determine than the color of his skin. That can't be in America anymore. MR. SHAW: Mr. Secretary? MR. CHENEY: Well, Bernie, I'd like to answer your question to the best of my ability, but I don't think I can understand fully what it would be like. I try hard to put myself in that position and imagine what it would have been like, but of course, I've always been part of the majority. I've never been part of a minority group, but it has to be a horrible experience. It's the sense of anger and frustration and rage that would go with knowing that the only reason you were stopped, the only reason you were arrested, was because of your color of your skin; it would make me extraordinarily angry. And I'm not sure how -- how I would respond. I think that we have to recognize that while we've made enormous progress in the U.S. in racial relations and we have come a very long way, we still have a long way to go. We still have not only the problems we're talking about here tonight in the terms of the problems you mentioned of profiling, but beyond that, we still have an achievement gap in education, income differentials, differences in lifespan. We still have, I think, a society that -- where we haven't done enough yet to live up to that standard that we'd all like to live up to, I think, in terms of equality of opportunity, that we judge people as individuals. And as Martin Luther King said, we ought to judge people on the content of their character instead of the color of their skin. I would hope that we can continue to make progress in that regard in the years ahead. |
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| Dealing with sexual orientation | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MR. SHAW: Senator, sexual orientation. Should a male who loves a male and a female who loves a female have all -- all! the constitutional rights enjoyed by every American citizen? SEN. LIEBERMAN: A very current and difficult question, and I've been thinking about it, and I want to explain what my thoughts have been. Maybe I should begin this answer by going back to the beginning of the country and the Declaration of Independence, which says right there at the outset that all of us are created equal and that we're endowed not by any bunch of politicians or philosophers but by our creator with those inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. At the beginning of our history, that promise, that ideal was not realized or experienced by all Americans. But over time since then, we have extended the orbit of that promise. And in our time, at the frontier of that effort is extending those kinds of rights to gay and lesbian Americans who are citizens of this country and children of the same awesome God just as much as any of the rest of us are. That's why I have been an original cosponsor of the Employment Nondiscrimination Act, which aims to prevent Gay and Lesbian Americans who are otherwise qualified from being discriminated against in the workplace. And I've sponsored other pieces of legislation and other -- taken other action that carry out that ideal. The question you pose is a difficult one for this reason: It confronts or challenges the traditional notion of marriage as being limited to a heterosexual couple, which I support. But I must say I'm thinking about this because I have friends who are in Gay and Lesbian partnerships who have said to me, "Isn't it unfair that we don't have similar legal rights to inheritance, to visitation when one of the partners is ill, to health care benefits?" And that's why I'm thinking about it, and my mind is open to taking some action that will address those elements of unfairness, while respecting the traditional religious and civil institution of marriage. MR. SHAW: Mr. Secretary? MR. CHENEY: This is a tough one, Bernie. The fact of the matter is we live in a free society, and freedom means freedom for everybody. We don't get to choose, and shouldn't be able to choose and say, "You get to live free, but you don't." And I think that means that people should be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to enter into. It's really no one else's business in terms of trying to regulate or prohibit behavior in that regard. The next step, then, of course, is the question you ask of whether or not there ought to be some kind of official sanction, if you will, of the relationship, or if these relationships should be treated the same way a conventional marriage is. That's a tougher problem. That's not a slam dunk. I think the fact of the matter, of course, is that matter is regulated by the states. I think different states are likely to come to different conclusions, and that's appropriate. I don't think there should necessarily be a federal policy in this area. I try to be open-minded about it as much as I can, and tolerant of those relationships. And like Joe, I also wrestle with the extent to which there ought to be legal Sanction of those relationships. I think we ought to do everything we can to tolerate and accommodate whatever kind of relationships people want to enter into. |
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