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 November 10, 2000  |
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Jim Lehrer talks with Leon Panetta, former White House chief of staff, about the pressure on the candidates and the possible next steps in the election controversy. Click here for a similar conversation with Howard Baker.
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LEON PANETTA: Thank you, Jim, nice to be with you. |
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| Concede and become a national hero? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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JIM LEHRER: Senator Baker said last night that Messrs. Gore and Bush had a choice to make, hang in there to the bitter end and possibly become president, or give it up and become a national hero today and in history. Do you see it as starkly as that?
JIM LEHRER: But just in personal terms, how difficult is that going to be for these two men when that time comes after all they've been through and as close as this election has been?
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JIM LEHRER: Senator Baker said last night, based on his knowledge of these two men specifically, that he thought both were capable in the final analysis of making this kind of wrenching decision. What is your reading of that?
JIM LEHRER: The words used in the prior discussion, you heard the same discussion all of us did, words like "frightened," "dangerous territory." Do you share some of those fears? LEON PANETTA: The greatest strength of this country is our confidence in the stability of the United States of America. We trust in our Constitution. We trust in our constitution, we trust in our process, we trust in ourselves. That's our great power abroad in the world, and it's our great strength here at home. When there is anything that threatens the stability of this nation, then that is of concern. And if we have a prolonged process here in arriving at who will be the President of the United States, then that could undermine the confidence we have in our stability, and I think that's of concern. JIM LEHRER: What constitutes a prolonged process in your opinion from here on?
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JIM LEHRER: Is there a problem here that if the rhetoric continues to escalate and this process continues, that no matter how it turns out, the legitimacy of the eventual winner, whether it be Vice President Gore or Governor Bush, will be in severe question? In other words, the atmosphere will be so poisoned going in, that it will be difficult for this person to function as President of the United States?
JIM LEHRER: You heard what was said earlier, that another problem here is you don't want to turn over too many rocks in this process, that the election process, the electoral process of the United States is a good and wonderful thing, but it isn't very exact. You have been through a lot of... how many times have you run for office, how many elections? LEON PANETTA: Eight times. JIM LEHRER: Eight times. And you have been involved in other people's elections, too. What would you say to the American people tonight about our electoral process and the sanctity of each vote, et cetera?
JIM LEHRER: Leon Panetta, thank you very much. LEON PANETTA: Thank you. |
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JIM
LEHRER: Last night we spoke with Howard Baker about the severe personal
pressures on Vice President Gore and Governor Bush to do the right and
timely thing. Baker is the former Republican Senator from Tennessee
and Republican leader of the Senate, and Reagan White House Chief of
Staff. Tonight, the same conversation with a Democratic counterpart,
Leon Panetta, White House Chief of Staff in the first Clinton term,
and before that, a long-time Congressman from California. Mr. Panetta,
welcome. 
LEON
PANETTA: Well, there's no question that there is going to be a tough
choice that has to be made by either one of these candidates at some
point. My concern is that they're both facing their first test as to
whether or not they can lead this nation and put the national interest
first and try to begin to heal the deep divisions that we see in this
election and in this country. And frankly, neither side is doing it
very well right now. I think the Bush camp, by going through the transition,
declaring victory, urging that Gore hang it up, I think they're on the
wrong track; particularly when there is no final vote here in Florida.
With regards to the Gore camp, their threat to carry on litigation and
prolong this very difficult decision, I think is also on the wrong track.
I think both need to back up, tell their principals to work together.
They're going to have a recount in Florida, they're going to count the
absentee ballots, whatever that final vote shows, whatever the secretary
of state certifies as the final vote, both sides ought to accept. 
LEON
PANETTA: Jim, this is the toughest decision that any individual who
has run for president will face. It's tough for any politician. You're
engaged in a campaign. You have been fighting for more than a year.
You have all of your campaign workers who have been working in every
state. They have been struggling and fighting. They have been pushing;
they have been trying to ensure that their man would win, and suddenly
it comes down to the election and they still don't have a winner. The
candidates are being pressured from their campaign advisers to stick
in there, fight it out -- they fought it this long -- continue to fight
it out. But in the end, both candidates have to understand they're running
for the presidency of United States, and that means that at some point
they have to take into consideration what is in the national interest
of this country. It's not an easy decision. It never is. But very frankly
if they want to be president of the United States and work in the Oval
Office, then they're going to have to understand that they will have
to put the national interest first if they're going to be good presidents.
LEON
PANETTA: I feel the same way, I really do. I know Al Gore... I was elected
with him in 1976 to the Congress -- and I think deep down in his guts,
he will do what's right for this country. I think Governor Bush, by
virtue of being part of a family that has been involved in politics
and in a lot of tough decisions, and he's had to face some tough decisions
as Governor as well, obviously will have to look at his own guts to
determine what's in the interest of this country. But I really do believe,
when it comes down to it, that they're going to make the right decision
for this country. 
LEON
PANETTA: I think if we arrive at a final vote and then there continues
to be litigation pursued by either one of these two candidates, and
we wind up going into court, I think what's going to happen is that
that will open a door to all sides to engage in basically scorched earth
litigation. They'll raise questions in Wisconsin, in Iowa, in New Mexico,
as well as other states. And I think you then start having a very prolonged
process with litigation that will keep this issue up in the air. I think
both camps have to push back to the side and focus on the finalization
of the vote count and rely on that, and whoever wins, accept those results.
LEON
PANETTA: Whoever is elected President right now is walking into a situation
in which you basically have a dysfunctional Washington. You're going
to have a President who, whoever it is, will have been elected by a
very small margin. You have got a Congress in which while the Republicans
may control it, their numbers are very small and at the margin as well.
You've got almost six years of trench warfare here between the two parties
and an awful lot of gridlock on a number of issues from the budget to
education to health care. And now suddenly a President has been tortured
through the election process as well. It is the perfect prescription
for further gridlock and for trouble. 
LEON
PANETTA: The reality is that obviously all of us, as American citizens,
enjoy a wonderful right in this country that our forefathers gave us
to exercise the freedom of elections, and the ability to vote is the
most important right we can have in a democracy. But the reality is
that there is no such thing as a perfect election. If people are looking
for "the" perfect election where every ballot is counted, every individual
has his or her vote, that's not what we have and it's what we haven't
had for 200 years. Now ultimately our system does work to come to some
finalization as to what the vote is. And we have to accept the imperfections
of our election process in order to bring closure to every election;
that's the nature of our democracy. And that's the way it is now and
that's the way it will be in the future.