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| ON THE HILL | |
 December 5, 2000  |
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Four U.S. Representatives discuss meetings on Capitol Hill today with the two vice presidential hopefuls.
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JIM
LEHRER: Now to four House members who were in those meetings with Cheney
and Lieberman. Republicans Robert Portman of Ohio, and Jennifer Dunn of
Washington State, and Democrats David Bonoir of Michigan, the party whip,
and Chaka Fattah of Pennsylvania. Congressman Bonior, how did you read the Lieberman message on how far the Gore team is prepared to go from this point on? REP. DAVID BONIOR: Well, Senator Lieberman was upbeat when he JIM LEHRER: But, in specific terms, the Florida Supreme Court decision in this case from yesterday, whatever decision it makes, if it's another negative decision for the Gore campaign, is it over or will that be appealed? REP. DAVID BONIOR: Well, it's not over because you have what the Seminole County case and the Martin County.... JIM LEHRER: But those are out of the hands of the Gore committee. REP. DAVID BONIOR: That is correct. They are not a party to those cases but they are significant cases nonetheless. But, obviously I do think that the Florida Supreme Court is where this will be decided. If they decide to allow those 10,000 votes that have not been counted to be counted, then it will.... JIM LEHRER: A different ballgame. REP. DAVID BONIOR: … a different ballgame. And Bush could still win because in Dade County it was a close vote 53-47. All we want is the votes to be counted.
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JIM LEHRER: Congressman Fattah, everybody at the Hill today said that the Democrats in the House were solidly behind what Gore has done and is doing. Is that an accurate reflection of what is really happening? (no audio) I can't hear you, Congressman. Hold on. REP. CHAKA FATTAH: Absolutely. JIM LEHRER: I got you. Go ahead.
JIM LEHRER: But let's say they decide it negatively for Al Gore, all the way down.... REP. CHAKA FATTAH: We have to wear the same, you know, smile that we would if we win if we lose. We operate through a rule of law, and we have had our day in court, and we will have a day before the Supreme Court of Florida on these questions. And we'll have to live with the judgment of the courts. |
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JIM LEHRER: Congresswoman Dunn, do the Republicans... are the Republicans prepared to do the same thing if, for instance, the Florida Supreme Court does rule that the Gore position and says let's count 10,000 votes, let's count 14,000 votes or whatever, are the Republicans willing to go with that?
JIM LEHRER: Does the long run include the possibility that the Florida Supreme Court could order a recount that could result in these votes being counted and the result being the opposite of what it is now, meaning Al Gore wins Florida and wins the presidency? You all would say, fine, let's move on? REP. JENNIFER DUNN: Well, I think there are other things beyond that because you've also got to deal with your legislature in the state of Florida, but I would say there's no question that we are elected by people at home who expect us to be back here doing the business for the country for them using our good judgment. If it were to occur that Al Gore became the president, of course, he would be our president. But that's not going to happen. JIM LEHRER: But if it does happen, Congressman Portman, there had been some talk if Al Gore ends up winning Florida that the Republicans are going to suggest that he stole the election. Do you buy into that sitting here now tonight in the reality that we are faced with on this particular night? REP. ROB PORTMAN: Jim, it's hard to say what would we do in that hypothetical thing that he won Florida, does that mean you go through the normal constitutional process under the federal statutes, under the Constitution, the legislatures and the states have a major role to play here. In fact they choose the electors ultimately - that it could conceivably go to Congress. I think David, Jennifer, Chuck and I are hoping that doesn't happen but that's a possibility. The questions at the end of this whole process after the courts are done, after the legislatures have spoken, do we have a president who has the support of the Congress, to be able to move the legislation forward that all of us would like to see for our constituents? I think the answer to that is yes. I think we are Republicans and we are Democrats. We feel strongly about our positions now but at the end of the day we'll come together as Americans. JIM LEHRER: Excuse me one minute. Let me just finish a question with Congressman Portman, Congressman Fattah. What I'm asking here is this question: Is this process that we've been going through-- and we're not there to the end yet-- should it be perceived by Republicans listening to you tonight as fair, no matter how it finally turns out? If it suddenly goes the opposite way most people think it's going to go?
JIM LEHRER: Same question. You wanted to say something, Congressman Fattah. REP. CHAKA FATTAH: I wanted to say that the state of New Mexico has certified Al Gore as the winner. The Bush Republicans have asked for a manual hand count because the margin is very close. I think that the... what you heard from my two Republican colleagues is that they are not yet at the point of saying that whatever the rule of the law is by the court that they're willing to accept, they keep adding in the legislature. I don't think we want to get to a point where George Bush won a state like West Virginia and the legislature decides to....give to the… JIM LEHRER: All right. REP. ROB PORTMAN: We are a country of laws and a country of the Constitution. It's very clear under the Constitution and the federal statutes that the legislatures have a role to play. That's the only point I was making. |
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JIM LEHRER: Let me reverse the question. Congressman Bonior, if this thing turns out -- and George W. Bush wins Florida, wins the presidency, are you as the number two leader of the House of Representatives in the Democratic Party prepared to stand up and say those votes weren't counted in Florida but it was a fair process, let's move on?
JIM LEHRER: Legitimately? He won legitimately? REP. DAVID BONIOR: Yes, I don't think it's helpful at this point or at any point to get into the question of legitimacy here with respect to the election. I've tried to stay away from that, but I must tell you that if they don't count those votes, Jim, in Dade County especially, somebody is going to count them. You're going to have two maybe months down the road, some academician or some academic institution that is going to count the vote. And what kind of situation are we going to be in in this country if George Bush is then in the presidency and we find out that there were enough votes in Dade County to have made Gore the victor? JIM LEHRER: Answer your own question. REP. DAVID BONIOR: I think we're in a constitutional crisis and I would prefer the best way to resolve that crisis.... JIM LEHRER: Hold on judgment a moment, Congresswoman. REP. DAVID BONIOR: The best way to resolve that is simply to count the votes. JIM LEHRER: Congresswoman. REP. JENNIFER DUNN: What I would say is the most important thing out
of any election is accuracy and fairness. We have gone over this JIM LEHRER: Congressman Fattah, where do you come down on the question of whether or not these votes are counted and what it means to you and what are you going to say to your constituents about what it means? REP. CHAKA FATTAH: We've had a very close election. 6 million people
voted in Florida. And they are separated by a couple of hundred votes
-- 500 votes at the moment. I think if you have 10,000 ballots that
no human eye has ever looked at-- we're not talking about dimples. You
could have clearly punched out chads that those machines did not read.
I think they that ought to be looked at. But whatever the final resolution
of JIM LEHRER: Congressman Portman. REP. ROB PORTMAN: One point about the... I've heard a lot over the few days about the possibility of some news organization or statistician, as David says, looking at Miami/Dade County's results and coming up with a different answer. It's subjective. And, again, having been down there, I would make the argument that in Broward County where they counted ballots where there were dimples only on the presidential side, meaning there was no light showing through it and yet there was light showing through all the rest of the ballot, I would make the argument, which was also done in Palm Beach County if there was any pattern at all, meaning five other dimples, that there were probably several hundred votes that I would not consider to be presidential votes. JIM LEHRER: You're not concerned about the Bonior scenario? REP. ROB PORTMAN: My only point is, I'm concerned about the scenario. I hope that doesn't happen. And I don't think there should be any effort to delegitimize Al Gore or George Bush once he's sworn in to be president - and I hope that won't happen. But my only point is I don't think the American people are going to fall for it because I think there will be necessarily a subjective process to get to whatever number you want to get to, whoever does it….the standards ought to be… JIM LEHRER: Congressman? REP. DAVID BONIOR: I think it's clear what's happening here is they don't want the votes counted. The reason is because there is some chance, probably a decent chance, that Gore will have more votes than Bush will if they count the Dade County votes. And so they're slow walking it. They're running out the clock. You can use any metaphor you want here. The fact of the matter is they don't want the votes counted because they know if they count the votes they're in trouble. JIM LEHRER: But if this worst-case scenario happens, what will be your position with your constituents in Michigan: Hey, Al Gore was cheated… REP. DAVID BONIOR: No. I'm not going to do that. I don't think it's helpful for the country to do that. I made that very clear. JIM LEHRER: All right. Thank you all four very much. |
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appeared before our caucus today, and he thanked our caucus for the
support that we have given him in the campaign and since the campaign
has finished. I think that the Speaker just now said it quite well.
He said that we're a country of a rule of laws and that we should let
the courts take their course, and I think what Senator Lieberman was
telling us was basically what we've been saying all along: That every
vote should count; that for many people the vote is the most precious
thing that they give our democracy, and I think this will play itself
out in a very positive way. 
REP.
CHAKA FATTAH: Absolutely. And I think that the question that is before
the Florida courts is a fairly simple one. I mean, we think, as Democrats,
that there are valid votes that haven't been counted and there's some
question about votes that may not be valid in Seminole and Martin Counties
that have been counted. And maybe at the end of the day they'll just
count all of the votes, those that came in through suspect absentee
ballot forms and those that haven't been yet looked at. I don't think
that we're at the end of the day yet. I heard Governor Bush say that
it's a month after Election Day and there's no finality yet. I heard
his lawyer in the 11th Circuit in Atlanta today Terry Olsen say no one
has been declared a winner. We just heard the Speaker say that we should
let the courts play this out. And I think all of them are right, and
I hope that the Justices in the Florida Supreme Court have the wisdom
to decide this. 
REP.
JENNIFER DUNN: Well, of course, Jim. We're in this one for the long
run. We believe we had a wonderful day yesterday in court. And I have
consistently felt that as we prepare to govern this country and we're
losing day by day that precious time to do a serious transition effort,
that Vice President Gore has had a couple of opportunities to take the
high road. And I continue to think that as we move through this process
and we go from one recount to the next recount with Governor Bush winning
every single one of these that it would be very much the high road and
I think a note of grace out of this for Al Gore to say to his lawyers,
"enough, this is over, we should not go on and I want to do what's
best for the country." But certainly Republicans have been on board
the Bush campaign for so long, early committed, and are looking forward
to helping to run this country, we'll be there in there for the long
run.
REP.
ROB PORTMAN: You're talking to someone, Jim, who spent some time in
Broward County and Palm Beach County and Miami/Dade County watching
the manual recounts, watching folks who were very well intended but
without any guidelines or standards, trying to discern the intent of
a voter by looking for a chad, pregnant dimple or otherwise, so that
process would be tough for me personally to rely on to have faith in
that process ending up with the right result. The votes have been counted.
They've been recounted. They've been recounted again in most counties
and in some like Palm Beach County several other times. And it's time
to let the process go forward. But personally, I happen to believe that
we ought to use the most accurate and the most fair count possible.
And personally I would have a hard time with that. But at the end of
the day, if we go through this whole process including the legislature
having their input, which is necessary under our Constitution and if
Al Gore becomes president, absolutely, I'll work with him. I don't think
that's going to happen. I think it's much more likely at this point
the odds are very likely that Governor Bush will prevail. But if it
turns out the other way, I think Jennifer and I and other Republicans
have a duty to our constituents. 
REP.
DAVID BONIOR: I'm prepared if the courts rule in favor of not going
forward on the recount and, in fact, that the electoral college votes
in Florida go to George Bush, I'm prepared to accept him as the President
of the United States. 
again
and again and again. We could go over this for a million years until
the last chad hits the floor and we wouldn't agree on whether that was
a dented ballot, a pregnant ballot or an undercount. And so I think
there's a point where you let things flow and we certainly have done
that through the legal process but there's a point where you say this
is the end for the good of the country. And I don't think looking ahead
two months and saying somebody is going to use the Freedom of Information
Act to access all those ballots and then hold it over whoever walks
away-- and I think it's a Democrats saying this-- I think it's not something
we should be saying now. It's to figure out how to get it done accurately
and fairly. I think it's been done accurately and fairly several times.
And then let's agree to work together whoever wins this election. 
the
Florida Supreme Court is on this matter, I think we as a country will
have to move on. We understand how technicalities work -- just as the
case is if by technicality those thousands of ballots are thrown out
in Seminole and Martin County, the Republicans will have to live with
it.