PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE October 6, 1996 Transcript

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JIM LEHRER: Mr. President, the senator mentioned trial lawyers and that means campaign financing. How do you personally avoid being unduly influenced by people who give you money or give you services in your campaigns?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, I try to articulate my positions as clearly as possible, tell people what I stand for, and let them decide whether they are going to support me or not. The senator mentioned the trial lawyers. In the case of the product liability bill which they passed and I vetoed -- I think that's what he's talking about -- I actually wanted to sign that bill, and I told the people exactly what -- the Congress exactly what kind of bill I would sign.

Now a lot of the trial lawyers didn't want me to sign any bill at all, but I thought we ought to do what we could to cut frivolous lawsuits, but they wouldn't make some of the changes that I thought should be made.

Now let me just give you an example. I had a person in the Oval Office who lost a child in a school bus accident where a drunk driver caused the accident directly, but there were problems with the school bus. The drunk driver had no money.

Under the new bill, if I had signed it, a person like that could never have had any recovery. I thought that was wrong.

So I gave four or five specific examples to the Congress, and I said, ``Prove to me that these people could recover, but we're going to eliminate frivolous lawsuits; I'll sign the bill.''

But generally I believe that a president has to be willing to do what he thinks is right. I've done a lot of things that were controversial -- my economic plan, my trade position, Bosnia, Haiti, taking on the NRA for the first time, taking on the tobacco companies for the first time. Sometimes you just have to do that because you know it's right for the country over the long run. That's what I've tried to do, and that's I will continue to do as president.

JIM LEHRER: Senator Dole?

MR. DOLE: How does he avoid conflict? Well, I don't know in the case of the trial lawyers. And I look at the trial lawyers. I mean, you're a few million short; you run out to Hollywood and pick up $2 million to $4 million. And organized labor comes to Washington, DC, and puts $35 million into the pot. Now, if these aren't special interests, then I've got a lot to learn. I was there for a while before I left on June the 11th.

The trial lawyers -- I don't -- you know, my wife's a lawyer. We're the only two lawyers in Washington who trust each other. But we're lawyers. I like lawyers. I don't dislike trial lawyers. But it seems to me there's got to be some end to the frivolous lawsuits and there's got to be some cap on punitive damage. They're putting a lot of business people out of business, small businessmen and small businesswomen who paid 70 percent of your $265 billion tax increase, the largest tax increase in the history of America.

I said that one day, and Pat Moynihan and the Democrats say ``No,'' he said, ``in the history of the world.'' So I modified it: the largest tax increase in the history of the world. And it seems to me that there's a problem there, Mr. President. And I will address you as Mr. President. You didn't do that with Mr. -- with President Bush in 1992.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. President?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Let me say first of all I signed a tort reform bill that dealt with civilian aviation a couple of years ago. I proved that I will sign reasonable tort reform.

Secondly, Senator Dole had some pretty harsh comments about special interest money. But it wasn't me who opposed what we tried to do to save the lives of children who are subject tobacco and then went to the tobacco growers and bragged about standing up to the federal government when we tried to stop the advertising, marketing, and sales of tobacco to children. And it wasn't me that let the polluters actually come into the halls of Congress, into the rooms and rewrite the environmental laws. That's what Speaker Gingrich and Senator Dole did, not me.

MR. DOLE: That's not true, but --

PRESIDENT CLINTON: So I believe that we should take a different approach to this and talk about how we stand on the issues instead of trying to characterize each other's motivations. I think Senator Dole and I just honestly disagree.

JIM LEHRER: Well, Senator Dole, let me ask you the same question I asked the president: How do you avoid being influenced by people who contribute money and services to your campaign?

MR. DOLE: I think it's very difficult. Let's be honest about it. That's why we need campaign finance reform. That's why I reach out to the Perot voters. And we've done about all that -- we are the reform party, the Republican Party. And the Perot voters who are looking for a home ought to take a look at the Republican record. Whatever it is, whatever the checklist was in '92, it's all done but the campaign finance reform.

I worked with Senator Mitchell, who played me, I guess, in the debate warm-up. We tried six or eight years ago to -- he appointed three people, I appointed three people, to get campaign finance reform.

We couldn't get it done because it wasn't enforceable.

You suggested a commission, Newt Gingrich did. I suggested that at least four or five years ago, we have a commission on campaign finance reform. They send it to Congress, and we have to vote it up or down. That's how it works. We're never going to fix it by the parties because Democrats want a better advantage to themselves, we want a better advantage as Republicans, and that's not how it's going to work.

But I want to touch on this tobacco thing. I know the president's been puffing a lot of that. But I want to go back to 1965. That was my first vote against tobacco companies, and I said we ought to label cigarettes, and I've had a consistent record ever since 1965. We passed a bill in 1992 that encouraged the states to adopt programs to stop kids from smoking. All 50 states did it. It took 3-1/2 years -- it wasn't until election year, Mr. President, you ever thought about stopping smoking.

What about drugs that have increased double in the last 44 months? Cocaine is up 141 percent -- or marijuana. Cocaine up 166 percent. I mean, it seems to me that you have a selective memory. And, you know, mine doesn't work that way, so I just want to try to correct it as we go along.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. President?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Mr. Lehrer, I hope we'll have a chance to discuss drugs later in the program, but let me respond to what you said.

I agree that too many incumbent politicians in Washington in both parties have consistently opposed campaign-finance reform.

That was certainly the case from the minute I got there.

So after Speaker Gingrich and Senator Dole took over the Congress, I went to New Hampshire, and a man suggested -- a gentleman that unfortunately just passed away a couple of days ago suggested that we appoint a commission. And I shook hands with him on it, and I appointed my members, and the commission never met. And then Senator Dole's ardent supporter, Senator McCain, who's out there today, along with Senator Feingold supported -- sponsored a campaign-finance-reform proposal. I strongly supported it, and members of Senator Dole's own party in the Senate killed it. And he was not out there urging them to vote for the McCain-Feingold bill.

So I think the American people, including the Perot supporters, know that I've had a consistent record in favor of campaign-finance reform, and I will continue to have. And I hope we can finally get it in the next session of Congress, because we need it badly.

JIM LEHRER: Senator Dole, 30 seconds.

MR. DOLE: Well, on campaign reform itself, we're going to get it when we have a bipartisan commission. Take it out of politics; get people who don't have any interest in politics but understand the issue, and let them make a recommendation to Congress.

Now, we're not kidding anybody, Mr. President. These are sophisticated people watching, millions and millions of Americans. They know the Republican Party hasn't done it; the know the Democratic Party won't do it. We ought to agree that somebody else should do it, and we have to vote it up or down.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I agree.

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