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| NEWSMAKER: GEORGE MITCHELL
AUGUST 4, 1997TRANSCRIPT |
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N. Ireland peace talks are scheduled to resume on 9/15/97. Sinn Fein is expected to be at the table, if the IRA continues to maintain its current ceasefire. A background report is followed by a Newsmaker interview with U.S. envoy George Mitchell.
MARGARET WARNER: And joining us now is George Mitchell, chairman of the Northern Ireland peace
A RealAudio version of this NewsHour segment is available.
NEWSHOUR LINKS:
August 4, 1997:
A background report on Northern Ireland peace talks.
July 21, 1997:
A panel discussion of an Irish Republican Army (IRA) ceasefire announced on Saturday, July 19.
March 17, 1997:
The Greening of the White House: an Online NewsHour forum investigates U.S. - Northern Ireland relations.
July 15, 1996:
A tradition of trouble: riots continue in Northern Ireland.
July 12, 1996:
A tradition of trouble:The Orange Day Parade sparks violence.
June 14, 1996:
Is peace possible? Two Irish reporters participate in an Online forum.
OUTSIDE LINKS:
The Irish Times on the Web.
The Belfast Telegraph on the Web.
talks. Welcome, Senator. What--this has been quite a political roller coaster. Where do you think the process stands now? Where are you now?
GEORGE MITCHELL, Chairman, Northern Ireland Peace Talks: (San Francisco) Well, I'm hopeful because this is the first time in the modern history of Northern Ireland that there has been in place at the same time a cease-fire and negotiations. You will recall that in the 70's and again in the early part of the 90's there were negotiations, but the violence was continuing.
Then in 1994, and in 1995, there was a cease-fire but there were no negotiations. Now, since a couple of weeks ago, we are both in place, and while there are many obstacles ahead, and it's going to be very difficult, I'm more hopeful than I've been, and I look forward to returning in September with a good deal of optimism.
MARGARET WARNER: And what do you credit for restarting this? I mean, how much credit do you give to the fact that there's been a change in government, both in London and in Dublin, because of these recent elections?
GEORGE MITCHELL: Well, the governments have pursued essentially the same policies as before,
with some variations, but there's no doubt that Prime Minister Blair and Secretary of State Mo Mowlam have given a new energy and a new impetus to the whole process. They've committed the government wholeheartedly to trying to move wholeheartedly to trying to move this process forward, and they've taken steps that I think have indicated that the willingness to accept the essential recommendation that I and my colleagues made over a year ago, the willingness to set a timetable, a time frame.
It actually had already been established in law of May 1998, for completion of this process, a reaching out really to both sides. I think the prime minister's done it quite skillfully, reaching out to one side, while accommodating the other. And my hope is that we will go forward and reach agreement, although I should emphasize that's still a big step away.
GEORGE MITCHELL: Well, we did not attempt in our report to provide the details because when we issued our report in January of 1996, we had no idea and no way of knowing when it would actually be implemented, if ever. Indeed, it's taken a year and a half to get to us, so there's no way that we could at that point project into the future and dot all of the "i's" and cross all of the "t's".
What we said was that the two previous positions should be compromised. One position was that
there had to be disarmament before the talks could begin. The other position was that there could be no disarmament until after the talks were all over, the logical common sense compromise which we suggested was to do it in parallel, leaving the details to be resolved by the parties, themselves, when they get to it. Now, that's going to be tough to do because it's been a very controversial, difficult issue for the participants. Nonetheless, I believe it can be done, and it quite clearly represents the only way forward. The governments have now embraced this as the basis for proceeding, and I hope very much that all of the parties will too.
MARGARET WARNER: How far apart--turning now to the political settlement talks, the main talks, how far apart do you think the parties are in what their expectations are in terms of what is "the" grand goal of the talks?
GEORGE MITCHELL: Well--
MARGARET WARNER: For the Catholic side and the Protestant side.
GEORGE MITCHELL: Well, certainly in terms of aspirations, they're very far apart. The Nationalists' position, Catholic position, is that Northern Ireland should be part of a United Ireland. The Unionist position that--is that it is now part of the United Kingdom, and it should remain a part of the United Kingdom. Those two clearly are the ultimate aspirations, and they both cannot be realized in this process.
The question is whether other issues--self-government fought Northern Ireland--some reasonable set of cross-national institutions between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, and also an important part of these talks, the relationship between Britain and Ireland can move forward to reach an accommodation that a majority of people in both communities can support. And it's important to stress that, Margaret, that any agreement reached here must be ratified by the people of Northern Ireland in a democratic referendum.
GEORGE MITCHELL: Yes, I do think it's possible. In fact, I believe that the overwhelming majority--overwhelming majority of the people of Northern Ireland want just that. Now, they have deep differences. It's a religiously segregated society in many respects. There's a lot of mistrust, hatred even, but on this most people are united, they want to resolve their political differences in democratic and peaceful ways. They don't want to go back to the horrible violence that filled their lives, that really dominated their society for such a long period of time.
MARGARET WARNER: Now, if that's the case--and I know it is--I mean, the polls show the same thing you're saying--why is it--has it been so easy to derail it, to just trigger violence just like that?
GEORGE MITCHELL: Well, first, of course, as we've seen in the Middle East, as we see in other areas, no matter what the majority wants, there will be extremists on both sides who do not want the process to move forward, who will cling to their irreconcilable, unchangeable position, and who are willing to, in effect, torpedo the process by the use of violence or by other means.
Now, that's deplorable; it's wrong; it should be condemned, and I do condemn it, but you have to
MARGARET WARNER: Now, in the three years you've been involved, or almost three years, have you seen the two main parties to this, the two main participants, not the extremists, have you seen them--have they changed at all in terms of either their commitment to peace, their understanding of what it takes?
GEORGE MITCHELL: They're trying very hard. The principal party on the Protestant or Unionist side is the Ulster Unionist Party, headed by David Trimble, to which you alluded in your introductory remarks, and the principal party on the Nationalist or Catholic side is the Social Democratic Labor Party, headed by John Hume, and John Hume has been one of those principally involved in bringing about the cease-fire and moving this process forward and both of those parties are trying very hard.
Remember now, they operate in a competitive, political atmosphere. Elections, fear of being outflanked in their community, the Ulster Unionist in the Protestant community, the STLP in the Catholic community. There's a lot of apprehension, a lot of uncertainty. This is a new situation. They've never before had a situation where you had both a cease-fire and peace talks. They've never before had a situation where this many parties sit down at all once, and politicians in democratic societies, there as here, as elsewhere, obviously are concerned about taking risks. What we are trying to encourage them to do is to be willing to take reasonable and responsible risks for peace.
MARGARET WARNER: And apply that same political analysis to Sinn Fein, the Gerry Adams group, the political wing of the IRA, in terms of the pressures on him.
GEORGE MITCHELL: Well, it seems--although this I do not know because of course much of what they do occurs in secret, the IRA is a secret illegal organization, it seems as though there has been a division within their ranks as to whether to pursue what they call the arms struggle that is the use of violence to achieve their political goals, or to enter the democratic process, and it seems to have gone back and forth.
My own feeling is that whatever may have been the case in the past, there is no justification
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Well, thank you, Sen. Mitchell, very much, and good luck to you.
GEORGE MITCHELL: Thank you, Margaret.
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