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February 7, 1997TRANSCRIPT |
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As Russia's second-in-command, Russian Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin, meets with Vice President Al Gore to prepare for a summit in Helsinki, Finland, in March between President Clinton and President Yeltsin, many hope the high level talks will reduce tensions between the two countries over NATO expansion. After this background report on Chernomyrdin's visit and discussion with Vice President Gore's national security advisor, Leon Fuerth, two Russian experts discuss how America's former Cold War advisary views plans to include Eastern Europe into NATO.
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February 7, 1997:
December 11, 1996:
Richard Holbrooke and Paul Nitze School of the Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University debate the pros and cons of NATO expansion.
November 15, 1996:
In a Newsmaker interview, Defense Secretary William Perry talks about the future role of NATO.
July 8, 1996:
Poland's President Kwasniewski comes to the NewsHour and explains why he is pushing for Polish NATO membership.
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MARGARET WARNER: Russian Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin has been in Washington for the past two days meeting with Vice President Gore in what has become a semi-annual event. Among other things, the two men were making final plans for a summit in March between President Clinton and the ailing President Yeltsin.
The summit was to have been in the U.S., but Gore and Chernomyrdin announced today that it will be held in Finland to cut down on travel time for Yeltsin. The Russian president made one of his rare public appearances yesterday, a 45-second talk on television.
A key issue at the summit will be NATO's plans to offer membership to Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic later this summer. The Russian government vigorously opposes the idea. Mr. Chernomyrdin and Mr. Gore briefed reporters about their meetings this afternoon.
VICE PRESIDENT GORE: We envision a robust NATO-Russia relationship as a key element in Europe's evolving security architecture. Obviously, this is a complex matter, but I am encouraged by our discussion. From the beginning, we have taken great care to address this issue with our Russian friends in an open and honest manner. There have been no surprises. Nor will there be any surprises. On a few matters we have agreed to disagree. But even there we have narrowed the range of disagreement.
VIKTOR CHERNOMYRDIN, Prime Minister, Russia: (speaking through interpreter) We all have to make difficult decisions primarily involving European security and strategic armaments. Of course, not everywhere and on all issues our points of view coincide. On some issues, some significant divergences of views do exist.
MARGARET WARNER: For more on this week's U.S.-Russia meeting and the issues at stake in the months ahead we have Vice President Gore's national security adviser Leon Fuerth. Thanks for being with us.
LEON FUERTH: Thank you.
MARGARET WARNER: Do you think Vice President Gore and the administration were able to ally any of the Russians' concerns this week about NATO expansion?
LEON FUERTH: I think what we've been doing in the course of these discussions is to make some advances in the process of talking these problems through with him, really making sure that each of us accurately understands what is motivating the other. And that helps then to narrow the search for ways in which to find accommodations inside of these problems. And I really feel based on the content and the tone of the talks that they had that that kind of process is moving along.
MARGARET WARNER: To what degree did this issue dominate your meetings this week?
LEON FUERTH: It didn't. Let me describe what they were doing. They met because this was the normal time for the meeting of the U.S.-Russia binational commission, otherwise known as Gore-Chernomyrdin, in Washington, meets every six months. This was our turn. And we have spent in terms of actual clock time most of the time in plenary meetings working on the agenda of the commission. But off that clock in private sessions one-on-one or with a few advisers. They have been talking about a range of security and economic issues. These included not just European security but also strategic arms limits, and some very important economic issues between the two countries.
MARGARET WARNER: Now, as Prime Minister Chernomyrdin expressed it to you all, what is the jest of their concern about NATO expansion?
LEON FUERTH: He puts it in very human terms. He says for many, many years the only way our people, meaning the Russian people, were ever given to understand what NATO is all about is that it's an armed alliance aimed at Russia, or the Soviet Union in those days. How are the Russian people to understand what NATO is today, and what it is going to become? How shall they accept that this development does not damage their security? Those are legitimate questions, and we think that we have legitimate answers.
MARGARET WARNER: In an interview with the Washington Post earlier this week in Moscow, Chernomyrdin essentially seemed to conceive that he knew NATO, if Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic came in, wasn't going to be a security threat to Russia but that the prospect of expansion was a sort of domestic political threat to the forces of reform. Did he make that same point to you all?
LEON FUERTH: I think he made it in the press conference today in a sense. I don't believe that he has conceded the security argument that many of his specialists and the military people feel, but you have to consider what his task is. His task is to lead the construction of a new economic system in Russia. That is a tremendously challenging job, and what he's concerned about is that the political context for that could be disturbed by a national debate over this issue. And, again, we think that doesn't have to be and that wise leadership on both sides can write a different next chapter.
MARGARET WARNER: All right. So what do you think it will take to make NATO expansion palatable to the Russians? He spoke today at the press conference about a seriously binding treaty. What's he talking about? Is that something the U.S. or NATO can offer?
LEON FUERTH: We do not think that a document that would be legally binding in the sense of something that has to go to parliaments is the right way to go. We think that the document that formalizes a new relationship between Russia and NATO can be made very serious indeed by political means. The key questions here are how to make sure that Russia has a suitable voice and place in European security matters and in decisions and how to make sure that the dynamics of the--of NATO now and NATO after it has taken in new states in close to the year 2000, when they would actually come in, how to make sure that the resulting situation is more stable, more secure lower levels of forces. There are various ways to do this, and we think that we will hit on formulations that the Russians, hopefully, will agree are good ones.
MARGARET WARNER: Is that the agenda for the March summit? In other words, do you expect to be able to come up with that formulation at that meeting?
LEON FUERTH: Well, certainly. The March summit is going to be an effort to see whether we can find the horizon on this issue, but they'll also be talking about strategic arms control, and they'll be talking about economics on a very large scale.
MARGARET WARNER: Given President Yeltsin's health problems, why is it so important to have a summit next month?
LEON FUERTH: First of all, the time is right. Our President has been re-elected and is commencing a new term. President Yeltsin was re-elected sometime ago but is now recuperating and reports are good and encouraging, and that means, in a sense, there will be a rebirth of his second term. So this is the moment for these two leaders to sit down and to figure out how to give additional momentum to the process of building a working partnership between these two countries that can last into the next century.
MARGARET WARNER: What did the Prime Minister tell the Vice President about the status of President Yeltsin's health, because, of course, there are so many different kinds of reports in this country about that.
LEON FUERTH: In essence, he said he's the boss. He's in charge. He's been in business. Decisions are getting made, and I wouldn't be here with you in Washington if I thought I shouldn't be.
MARGARET WARNER: That's what he said.
LEON FUERTH: Basically.
MARGARET WARNER: Does that jibe with what you know from both independent and other and sort of American sources of information?
LEON FUERTH: It jibes with what we know from any source of information, not just American.
MARGARET WARNER: And how much do you think his health problems have and the political maneuvering it's created have affected your ability to negotiate and talk about this NATO issue, or resolve the NATO issue?
LEON FUERTH: I don't see any impediment in this process. We are having very serious discussions, and there is a sense of gradual movement along the line that we hope will lead towards eventual agreement. I don't sense that there is a kind of a stagnation and waiting. I believe the Russian government is purposeful.
MARGARET WARNER: And how confident are you this summit will take place next month?
LEON FUERTH: That's the date.
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Thanks, Leon Fuerth.
LEON FUERTH: You're welcome.
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