NEWSMAKER WITH SECRETARY COHEN June 18, 1998 The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer Transcript

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With violence continuing to plague the Yugoslavian province of Kosovo, NATO is considering further military action. Secretary of Defense William Cohen has just returned from a meeting to discuss NATO's next move. He explores the Kosovo situation and the possible implication of missile technology transfers with China.

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A RealAudio version of this segment is available. NEWSHOUR LINKS: KOSOVO June 12, 1998 NATO approves air exercises in the region. June 5, 1998 Violence continues in the Yugoslav province of Kosovo. March 9, 1998 Fighting between Serbian security forces and Kosovo separatists leaves scores dead . NEWSHOUR LINKS: CHINA June 16, 1998 The House plans to investigate the illegal transfer of missile technology to China . June 15, 1998 Amb. Li Zhaoxing discusses President Clinton's upcoming trip to China. April 27, 1998 An interview with Chinese dissident Wang Dan. Browse the NewsHour's coverage of Asia. OUTSIDE LINKS: The Embassy of the People's Republic of China White House

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Secretary William Cohen joins us from the Pentagon. He has just returned from NATO meetings in Brussels, where planning is underway for possible action in the breakaway province of Kosovo. Thank you for being with us, Mr. Secretary.

WILLIAM COHEN, Secretary of Defense: My pleasure, Elizabeth.

A Kosovo update.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Please bring us up to date on fighting today in Kosovo.

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, the reports that I’ve seen would indicate that the fighting has decreased somewhat. There appears to be some positive benefit from the meeting that President Yeltsin had with Mr. Milosevic that there has been some diminution or reduction in the level of fighting. It’s sporadic. And it’s likely to be sporadic for the foreseeable future, so we try to bring about a diplomatic solution.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Is there any evidence that President Milosevic is withdrawing troops from Kosovo, as demanded by the six-nation contact group, for the former Yugoslavia, which includes the United States?

WILLIAM COHEN: No indication that he’s prepared to withdraw them at this time. As you know, he had predicated that withdrawal upon the end of the terrorist activities on the part of those who were seeking independence, and so that’s one of the conditions that the NATO group, the contact group, all would disagree with that kind of condition, so there’s no indication that he’s withdrawn them at this time.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And how strong are the guerrillas?

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, they are small in number but appear to be gaining some strength, and much of the concern certainly to Mr. Milosevic in terms of what’s taking place on the ground—the more repression, the more violent action that he takes against innocent people is only going to solidify that kind of support amongst the people. So one of the reasons that we have insisted that we have insisted that he cease immediately the kind of shelling that has taken place in recent weeks is that it’s going to not only kill many innocent people but also to turn the overwhelming tide of people against him and with the move toward independence. So it’s in his interest to stop this for a variety of reasons.

Outside influences in Kosovo?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Mr. Secretary, are the guerrillas getting any help from outside? As you know, there have been reports that Chechens from Chechnya, which fought for—has been fighting for its independence from Russia—have come into help the Kosovars. Is that true?

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, there have been some reports to that effect. I don’t have any information that would confirm that the Chechens or others who might otherwise offered help have done so. That’s always, of course, a subject of some speculation and perhaps some reality at some point, but I have not seen any evidence that would confirm that.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And Albania charged today that Yugoslav troops fired across the border into Albania, killing several Albanians. Do you have any information about that?

WILLIAM COHEN: I don’t. Again, a lot of reporting is coming in, but we have to take our time, which was evaluating the accuracy of that. We’re following it very closely, have not had a confirmation of that particular report.

What impact did the show of force have?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: In his meeting with President Yeltsin earlier this week, President Milosevic of Yugoslavia did promise to live up to some of the demands of the contact group. For example, he promised to allow refugees to return, and he promised some other things too. Is there any evidence that he’s living up to those promises?

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, those are the promises he made explicitly. We would expect to hold him to those promises, though there may be some reluctance on the part of the refugees as such to return to their homes until they see a greater commitment to a cessation of hostilities. So we intend to hold him to his promise, and we will have to see as the days unfold as to whether the refugees will go back. We would hope that we would have international supervision so that we could verify that, in fact, he’s keeping his commitment, that they’re going back to their homes and, in fact, have been met with some assistance, as far as the rebuilding of those homes.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: So overall, looking at the situation, do you think the air exercises carried out earlier this week by NATO over Northern Albania and Macedonia made any difference?

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, I believe they’ve made a difference and they’ve made a difference in the sense that they showed to Mr. Milosevic and to others that NATO is able to act reasonably quickly to gather forces, to put on the very effective air exercise with a multiplicity of countries who were contributing their air forces of support mechanisms to that air exercise, and so it showed, number one, solidarity of support, and also ability to mobilize very quickly. So I think it had an impression—made an impression. I also believe that President Yeltsin made an impression with Mr. Milosevic. I met with Minister Sergeyev, the Russian minister of defense. He expressed to me both privately and then into a semi-public audience, at least, the reason that he was going to go back, deliver a message to President Yeltsin, and President Yeltsin was going to talk very directly and very candidly with Mr. Milosevic. So I think all of that contributed to impressing Mr. Milosevic.

NATO's next move.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: What further options are currently under consideration by NATO?

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, NATO has been tasked to look at the military authorities, have been tasked to look at the—a variety of options—the military options, so that could be utilized. That would be, number one, effective and obviously desirable to carry out, should that be the case. But I want to make this point that no decision on military action has been made. That is some distance away, if at all, becoming reality. Secondly, we have to be very careful. We do not want to take any action that would indicate to the UCK, those who are seeking independence, that we are going to provide support for that effort. We want both parties to come to the bargaining table. We want a cessation of the hostilities, the killing, and we want them both to negotiate. We do not want to be in the border guard for Mr. Milosevic or any air force for those who are seeking independence.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: There have been reports from the French foreign minister and others that some of the options include a no-fly zone banning heavy weaponry and using air strikes. Are those reports right?

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, there are a variety of options that are being considered. I think it would be counterproductive to discuss what they are at this point. There are simply options being examined by military authorities, and that would make serious perhaps recommendations to NATO itself and then I would also remind our viewers that Congress, that parliaments all have to be involved in any discussion, in a deliberation about military force. This is something that would require consultations and at this point in time there have been no decisions made on military action. We’re in the process of consulting with members of Congress. I have been talking to them this morning, and will do so again tomorrow just to get their ideas about what’s taking place and obviously help formulate some kind of a policy that would be implemented at a future time.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And, in fact, several of our NATO partners have said that UN action would be required before there could be further UN action in Kosovo. Do you agree with that?

WILLIAM COHEN: I don’t agree with that. We don’t agree with that in the administration. NATO, itself, has to make determinations about its security and those actions which are undermining or contributing to destabilizing areas that would also undermine NATO stability as such. And so I don’t think that we need any Security Council endorsement or mandate. It would be desirable. We’d prefer to have that, but it’s not indispensable. It’s not imperative. There are some who disagree with that, who believe that it must go to the Security Council. But that would end up giving other countries veto power over what would be essentially actions that are now contributing to instability in the southern—Southeastern tier of Europe, and we think that would be a mistake.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: But, Mr. Secretary, do you have a time frame in mind if the Serbian security forces and Yugoslav troops continue to shell Kosovar villages and many, many refugees are fleeing next week. Would then NATO take some action?

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, again, a lot depends upon NATO’s will in this particular circumstance. Those members who are going to insist upon going to the Security Council, that obviously takes more time. Secondly, there’s always the prospect that someone in the Security Council would veto any action taken by NATO. And then it would be a question, in addition to that, as to whether members of the respective parliaments or congresses are going to lend their support for any military action. So I think that the time frame is in—undefined right now. Actions taken by Mr. Milosevic or the UCK could accelerate those deliberations, and there’s no way of predicting right now what the time frame will be.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: It seems like there’s been kind of a pulling back. Last week, NATO made some very definite threats about fairly fast action.

WILLIAM COHEN: The NATO members indicated there should be an immediate use of an air exercise as such to demonstrate to Mr. Milosevic that that power could be used very quickly and very—with very powerful consequences, also, tasking the military so we look at military options. But even during those deliberations several members of the NATO members also argued that it must go to the Security Council first before any actions shall be taken, so that all was very open and made quite public.

Missile technology transfers with China: "A national security fiasco"?

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Mr. Secretary, turning now to China and the satellite issue, the New York Times reported today that Pentagon and State Department officials are raising new questions about whether a Chinese-controlled company with close ties to the military should be able to buy some satellites containing sophisticated equipment. These were approved in 1996, but they—a new license is necessary. Should that license be granted?

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, that’s precisely why there’s an examination of the licensing application right now. The original application has been modified, and that modification will require an examination of the existing procedures. I can’t really make any predetermination on whether it should be granted or rejected, but it’s now going to a regular process, and I’m sure that all of the agencies and those who are responsible for examining the national security implications, including the Defense Department, will make that determination.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Earlier in the NewsHour tonight Kwame Holman reported, and we heard Rep. Gerald Solomon of New York say that the technology transfers have been "a national security fiasco," threatening the very security of this nation of ours. Have they been, the technology transfers?

WILLIAM COHEN: Well, I would point out that as far as the commercial satellites are concerned, very strict procedures were observed in terms of what technology would be transferred, how it be transferred, and a determination was made by the State Department concurring the DOD -- the Department of Defense concurred that those commercial satellite launches should go forward. And so we have not seen any information. I have not seen any information that would indicate there has been a compromise of our national security as a result of these commercial losses taking place. So I also heard Congressman Norman Dicks call for at least some reservation of judgment on this, that there’s an investigation that will be conducted by members of Congress, that should go forward in due course, and everybody keep in mind that we have to have the facts before judgment.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Do you think that the Chinese now have a military capability they didn’t have before because of this transfer?

WILLIAM COHEN: I really have not seen any contribution to a significant improvement to Chinese capability. Beyond that, I think that we’ll have to wait for a judgment. I think that what we have done in the past has been consistent with a policy that has been expressed by several administrations. I think we have a choice, and we can either treat China as an enemy or treat them as a country that’s going to emerge certainly as a power in the future, and we ought to engage them in international norms of good behavior, and I believe that what President Reagan, President Bush, and President Nixon before that began many years ago is something that is in our national security interest to engage China in a constructive way. That means dealing with them in a very forthright fashion, denying them certain either information or technologies, when it’s in our interest to do so, but to cooperate when it’s also in our interest to do so. I think we have to engage them. President Clinton is going forward with his meeting. I think that’s the right thing to do, and I hope that we can continue to make progress in establishing a good relationship with China.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Well, Mr. Secretary, that’s all the time we have. Thank you very much for being with us.

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