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| THE GERMAN DEFENSE MINISTER | |
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During one of NATO's press briefings, reporters were able to question German Defense Minister Rudolf Scharping who is touring refugee camps in the Macedonia. |
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PETER DANIELS: Good Morning. As you can see, the German Minister of Defence, Rudolf Scharping, is in Segrane in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia at the refugee camp. This is a very big camp, it is just a small area that you see. There are approximately 32,500 refugees there. I can give you some facts on what Segrane has become and who is involved in the operation of the camp after the session with the Defence Minister. MR RUDOLF SCHARPING: First of all I wanted to inform the journalists in Brussels about my talks with the Macedonian government, with the President and with the Defence Minister. The situation here in Macedonia is a difficult one because of more than 13% of the former population are in the country as displaced persons and refugees and I think the western community, NATO, the European Union and all the others, are responsible for stabilising the situation here in Macedonia in order to have close cooperation in the economics, in the humanitarian aid and so on. My first impression from Segrane here is that everybody who is displaced from Kosovo wants to go back but under clear conditions, everybody told me that NATO should insist on the five points, should be ready to be present within Kosovo in order to make sure that there is a democratic and peaceful development in Kosovo after stopping the murdering, after the withdrawal of the Serbian troops and after the return of the refugees back to their homes MARK LAITY, BBC: Minister, you have talked about the unity of the refugees in wanting to have NATO's five conditions met. What about the unity of NATO, in particular last week we saw what appeared to be the starkest difference between Germany saying land forces for a forced entry were unthinkable, the British wanting that option very firmly kept on the table because they believe it may be necessary? I would hazard a guess that the refugees would also want that option kept on the table. How do you think that NATO unity is holding up and do you think that Germany's statements about unthinkability were helpful? MR SCHARPING: First of all concerning the unity of the refugees. That is not surprising, because they told me about their experiences within Kosovo, about the massacres and about the killings and murderings, that is the slaughter which happens in Kosovo until now. And all that we are doing militarily, and the humanitarian aid, and politically, has one common objective - to make sure that the refugees and displaced persons can go back. Within NATO there is a strong unity, the debate about the ground troops in my view is sometimes a little bit artificial because we will have a chance, I hope we will have a chance, in reaching a United Nations resolution. There is one crucial point, one interesting point on the timetable: the G8 summit in Cologne in a few weeks, I hope, will give us a chance to find a common solution, including Russia for example, and then we must be able to implement any kind of political settlement and I think it might be the best, and it will be the best, to concentrate the whole effort on our abilities, our capacities, to implement a political solution - and that is the planning process which is going on in NATO. JAKE LYNCH, SKY NEWS: Mr Scharping, let me put to you the same question as was put to your Chancellor last week. If it proves impossible for NATO to secure its objectives by air power alone, which would Germany rather have - defeat or a ground war? MR SCHARPING: I am sure that we will reach our objectives. We made a lot of progress, the air campaign is successful and if we are a little bit more patient, not to think in terms of one week or one day, we will reach our objectives. I am sure, the strategy is the right one and as I said there is a strong unity within NATO. And don't forget the developments within Yugoslavia, the desertation of many, many soldiers, the civil development within Yugoslavia and many other signals that there is some pressure within Yugoslavia, not to be over-estimated but there is some pressure within Yugoslavia, and this combination, military action, international policy and pressure on Milosevic, pressure within Yugoslavia, gives us a very good chance to solve the problems in the foreseeable future. NEW YORK TIMES: What is Germany's position on an augmented Kfor of about 48,000 troops? When do you think such a force ought to be deployed in the region, how many of them ought to be deployed within a short timeframe? And which types of forces ought to be deployed first, forces which consist of combat engineers to deal with mining, or forces that are more geared for a security role in combat of this Kfor? MR SCHARPING: I am sure that we need forces who are able to do both, to make sure that there is security within Kosovo, and we need forces who are able to protect the civilian development, and forces who are able to cooperate in a civil/military cooperation in order to develop the country and to help the people. I cannot say 40 or 50,000 is the right size, we will see it and it depends on the planning process. But I can say that we must be concentrated on that process and that we should be ready in a short time to implement because we cannot allow any kind of vacuum between a political settlement on the one side and our ability and our capacity to implement such a political settlement. From the German side I can say that we are present here in Macedonia and that we are ready to implement a political settlement in a very short time. NEW YORK TIMES: How many forces is Germany prepared to contribute to an augmented Kfor of around 48,000 and what types of forces? MR SCHARPING: Well it is a complete force with all the responsibilities and abilities which are needed and we are here in Macedonia with nearby 4,000 and we are ready to add a plus of 2,000 if necessary. That is a percentage of more than 10% and that is the same size as we do it in Bosnia Herzegovina for example. RTL: What do you think about the Russian position when we heard Mr Ivanov say that the only way to begin the negotiation is to stop immediately the bombing campaign? MR SCHARPING: Well if you are looking on the principle of the G8 and on the five points agreed by NATO, by the United Nations General Secretary, by the European Union and others, there is a solid basis for a political settlement. For me personally it was interesting to see that the Russian position is coming closer and closer to NATO's, the European Union's and others, and that gives us a chance. It is clear and interesting to see that the Russian position is drifting away, so to say, from Milosevic and his position, there is a lot of pressure. Russia understands that its European role and its worldwide interests cannot depend on Milosevic, the last dictatorship in Europe after the break-up of the Iron Curtain. NICK CHILDS, BBC: There has been a lot of debate recently about NATO's targeting policy and its air campaign and some misgivings expressed about that targeting in the light of certain mishaps, including from your own colleague, Mr Fischer. Can you say if you have discussed with any of your defence colleagues in other countries or within NATO, the refocusing of targeting away from strategic targets and towards Serb forces in the field, or are you happy that NATO continues to strike a broad range of targets across Yugoslavia? MR SCHARPING: My view is that we have to attack Yugoslav forces within Kosovo, that we have to attack strategic targets in the whole of Yugoslavia and if you are looking on the targeting process, we didn't enter phase three. That is a decision that can be made if it is necessary to intensify the air campaign in the next few weeks if necessary. And I think we must have this possibility to escalate the military action in order to reach a political settlement and then to press Milosevic on the five points of NATO or on the principles of the G8, that is the one point. The other point is that NATO has to be careful with the targeting process itself, for example the bombardment of the Chinese Embassy was a terrible mistake, but on the other side we have to see that after using about 10,000 bombs and targets to be attacked by laser and other bombs, that only 12 mistakes is a very, very small percentage. We have to avoid terrible mistakes as the one at the Chinese Embassy, but on the other side NATO is strong on the point to be careful with civilian life and to protect it as well as possible. JENNIFER GRIFFIN, FOX NEWS: What effect do you think reports from Washington that Clinton has authorised the CIA to look into ways to destabilise the Milosevic government will have on NATO unity? MR SCHARPING: That is not a race in time because NATO is able to win, NATO will win and Milosevic knows that we will win, the political process as well as the military action. It is very important in a long term perspective to see both things together, first of all to solve the problems with Kosovo to make the refugees able to go back to their homes under secure conditions; and on the other side the democratic development within Serbia, because we are not fighting against the Serbian people, we are fighting against the last dictatorship in Europe. In the long term, in terms of a Stability Pact, of some kind of conference for security and cooperation on the whole Balkans, I think it is necessary to make clear to the Serbian people: you have a chance to come to Europe, but without Milosevic. MARK LAITY, BBC: I just want to ask you a question about public opinion, not so much just Germany, but you are one of a number of countries where public opinion is slowly slipping away. Why do you think that is and what do you think leaderships, not just of your country but other countries, should be doing to if you like get the level of public opinion support up to where it was at the beginning of the air campaign rather than where it is now? MR SCHARPING: First of all there is a continuing strong public support in Germany as well as in other countries, a clear majority supporting NATO and the action, the political, military and humanitarian action of NATO and the NATO member states. The other point is we have to make understandable for our citizens that we are within an action after 9 years of wars, after 4 wars on the Balkans provoked by Milosevic, after more than 80 United Nations resolutions. Every United Nations resolution was broken by Milosevic, there was month per month, year per year of strong political effort to solve the problems in a peaceful way. And after that situation I think it is absolutely clear that simply 2 months to solve problems which were developed for more than 8/9 years, that is a very, very short time. And I said in the early beginning of the military action: let's not debate about timetables, let's talk about the objectives we want to reach. And if you are looking to all the massacres, the murders, the killed within Kosovo, the refugees, the hundreds of thousands of displaced persons, they have the right to go back, they have the right to be protected by us, they have the right to live in dignity and in their own homes and that is the objective we have to reach and we will reach. VATICAN RADIO: You said that the outstanding differences between NATO and Russia within the G8 on the draft resolution for Kosovo could be resolved at the Cologne G8 Summit in the second half of June. Does it mean that you don't expect any breakthrough, any agreement within the G8 on that resolution over the next days in Bonn at the diplomatic level where negotiations are under way? MR SCHARPING: Well, as you know there are talks among the Political Directors of the G8, there is some progress that gives me some hope, but on the other side there is no breakthrough. And I am not sure if we can reach a breakthrough within the next few days, I hope so, but at least I think there is chance, an additional chance in the G8 Summit in Cologne. I don't know at what time, hopefully tomorrow, and it is in the hands of Milosevic, he has the key to stop any military action if he is stopping the murderings and the killings within Kosovo, and is starting, verifiably, the withdrawal of the troops outside from Kosovo. NEIL HARRISON, ASSOCIATED PRESS TV NEWS: What do you make of the recent surge of refugees over the border into Macedonia where you are now, just in the last couple of days? There has been some speculation that perhaps Milosevic is ethnically cleansing the country fully prior to any settlement being sorted out? MR SCHARPING: Well that is a cynical game Milosevic is playing all the time with human rights and human lives. He is driving out and displacing persons from Kosovo. He is using especially young men as human shields within Kosovo and he is trying to destabilise Macedonia as well as Albania and that is why I am talking with the Macedonian as well as with the Albanian government to make sure that this policy of Milosevic will not succeed. PETER DANIEL: I know you have a busy day and you are going to get on with a tour of the camp and proceed with your schedule. So thank you very much for being with us this morning from the Segrane refugee camp in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Perhaps I could fill a little bit of this out with some facts of Segrane. We have, as you know, come from there twice now, the Secretary General was in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia a couple of weeks ago and visited the camp as well. It only started to be built about a month ago, on 24 April, with the support of about 630-odd German soldiers. The initial capacity of Segrane was 5,000, but it has far surpassed that, it now has the capacity of 40,000 refugees and the current population, as of today, I am told is 32,500. The management of the camp is in the hands of the Australian CARE organisation and medical support is Medicins Sans Frontieres. The Norwegian Red Cross has a field hospital with a 100-bed capacity in the camp. There is technical support from Oxfam in the UK and the Technische Hilfwerk from Germany. All in all there are 30 non-governmental organisations involved in various works in the camp. Just a brief word, about 3.00 this afternoon we will have Mr Isa Zimberi from the Kosovo Information Office in London with us to take your questions, and of course we will have the daily military briefing from General Jertz and I will be back on behalf of Jamie who is enjoying what is a holiday, he has a holiday on a holiday for a change. You have received the morning up-date, so I will leave it at that and I will be back here at 3.00 pm to answer your questions.
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