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| GENERAL WESLEY CLARK | |
 January 26, 1999 
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General Wesley Clark, the head of NATO forces in Europe, speaks with Elizabeth Farnsworth about current fighting in Kosovo.
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| Will NATO be necessary? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Welcome, General. GEN. WESLEY CLARK, Supreme Allied Commander, Europe: Thank you, Elizabeth. ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Will NATO air strikes and perhaps even NATO ground forces be necessary to stop the fighting in Kosovo?
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Can he be persuaded? What did you think after meeting with him for - what was it -- seven hours last week? GEN. WESLEY CLARK: It was seven and a half hours. General Klaus Naumann and I went down at the direction of the North Atlantic Council. We went down there on what in military terms we'd call an unarmed reconnaissance mission in that no political decision had been made to actually go in and say comply or else. We were directed to go down there, find out exactly what his positions were on the key issues and promises that he'd made to NATO and the international community. We discussed in length his willingness to admit Louise Arbour, the chief prosecutor for the international war crimes tribunal, we discussed his complaints against the head of the O.S.C.E. mission and we discussed the many promises which he was flagrantly violating, the promises he made to NATO in October that enabled to us relax the threat of air strikes then. In every case the answer was through great dialogue essentially no. And we explained to him what might happen. We had a long dialogue on this, but it was stubborn, difficult and there was a very obdurate mood in Belgrade. ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: So if that obduracy continues and the fighting doesn't stop, what would NATO do then?
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And, General Clark, what would the goal of NATO action be? GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, first of all, understand that we believe this problem has to be resolved by peaceful and democratic means, negotiation, dialogue. Let's give the people in Kosovo their autonomy. That's what the international community has called for. And so what NATO has to do is to reinforce all of the other pressures that are coming to bear on Mr. Milosevic. We've got to get all the other international agencies involved. The Russians have a stake in this. Let's have Russia put strong pressure on -- and many other diplomatic efforts that are currently under way. NATO's function is we're there if force has to be threatened or used, NATO is the agency that's standing there at the direction of its members to do this. |
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| What is the situation? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: So, General Clark, what is the situation exactly right now? There was a meeting of the contact group, the European nations, the U.S. and Russia, that oversee what's happening in Yugoslavia by the international community and they've called for apparently some kind of autonomy --autonomy, not independence, for Kosovo. Now, will they try to get the two parties, Milosevic and the Kosovars to the table? And if they can't, then NATO will threaten to launch air strikes? GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, Elizabeth, I'm not going to go into any specific scenario. There are many ideas under discussion in the international community today. Frankly, NATO is just one member of that community. We're listening to the dialogue, we're preparing our own capacities, we've got our plans done, we've got our equipment ready, our forces are available if need be to be called on. But I think that what has to be recognized is we're in a vital period of decision making now in each of NATO's sovereign nations; in their own ways, each nation is weighing the alternatives, figuring out how to harness its resources and put the concerted pressures out there to bring on Milosevic and to the Albanians to come together and resolve this problem peacefully.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, we have a variety of plans in place. And this will depend entirely on the nature of the dialogue and the direction that NATO receives from its member nations. So the military has a lot of capabilities. But I'm not going to get into all those plans right now. ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And what provisions are being made, if necessary, to withdraw the 700 verification members, the international verification group which is there overseeing what was supposed to be a cease-fire? GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, we do have in Macedonia right now a 2,300-man NATO extraction force. Now, this is a force that's composed entirely of our European allies. It's been there on the ground, some elements, for almost two months. But full force has been complete for about two weeks. They're trained, they're ready to go. And if required, they could go in and extract the unarmed verifiers. ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And if it moved to this point, would they have to be extracted before NATO took any action? GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, that's a decision that will have to be made by the appropriate authorities. But certainly everything would seem to suggest this. ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Would you have to put troops into the ports in Albania and on the border in order to stop guns from going through, weapons from going through to the K.L.A.? GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, there has been discussion of that plan. And we've looked at many such eventualities. |
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| The need for ground forces? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Would NATO action be limited to air strikes, or would ground forces have to be used? And I want to put something to you that was said on the show last week, the former U.S. Ambassador to NATO, Robert Hunter was on the show, and he said NATO may have to put troops on the ground to redeem its credibility in Kosovo.
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: I think the credibility issue came up because Mr. Hunter and others were saying that NATO threatened action in October, then when a peace agreement or an agreement was signed, NATO didn't have to follow through on the threat. But, in fact, the fighting continued, which is what the whole thing was - NATO was threatening action to stop. So NATO's credibility would be threatened in something didn't happen now. I think that was the point they were making. GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, you know, when we stopped the Serb offensive that caused this humanitarian outrage in October by the NATO activation warning, we knew that what we were buying was a period of relative tranquillity for two to four months, during which ambassador Chris Hill and his European colleagues could try to mediate some sort of an agreement. We're three months into that period now. It's been a rocky road. And the question is are we going to be able to muster enough cohesion in the international community to get the kind of outcome we want? Or will this conflict go into another more violent phase.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Well, we've spent probably ten years now in the international community dealing with a man who has emerged as the president of Yugoslavia. We've seen a brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing in Bosnia. We've seen hundreds of thousands of casualties -- two million people displaced. The nations of Europe and the United States have spent tens of billions of dollars dealing with the consequence. And history teaches us that when you're talking about transatlantic security and in Europe when problems start, if they're not dealt with effectively, they have a tendency to escalate and grow over time. We saw this as Yugoslavia began to disintegrate. It got worse and worse. So what we're seeing here is this is a problem that could, if it's not properly dealt with, become more severe. We can't allow a dictator to -- to run the agendas in a Europe and a transatlantic community that's becoming ever more democratic, ever more open, looking to the West. It's time for all of the people in this region to have a chance to participate in these wonderful prosperities and the beauty of democracy. And that's what I think all of Europe is hoping for. ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: General, as the allied commander in Europe, are you afraid you're not going to get the unity among the nations that would permit NATO to do what it feels necessary?
ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Thank you very much, General Clark. GEN. WESLEY CLARK: Thank you, Elizabeth. |
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ELIZABETH
FARNSWORTH: Last October, the threat of NATO air strikes against Yugoslav
President Milosevic stopped much of the fighting between his forces
and ethnic Albanian separatists in the Serbian province of Kosovo. But
fighting has now flared again, culminating last week in the massacre,
apparently by Serbian forces, of 45 Kosovars just south of the capital
Pristina. In response, NATO began moving forces into place in northern
Italy and the Adriatic for possible air strikes if the killing does
not stop. And European, U.S., and Russian diplomats met in London and
drew up a settlement that would grant reportedly autonomy to Kosovo.
The head of NATO forces in Europe, General Wesley Clark, is with us
now. He met with President Milosevic in Belgrade last week. 
GEN.
WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think what's clear is that President Milosevic
has to be persuaded that he is not going to be allowed to continue to
seek a military solution to this problem. He has it in his mind and
his advisors have it in their mind, I believe, that they can stall the
international community, put us off balance, divide us, confuse us,
befuddle us and somehow continue to conduct military and police operations
with heavy weapons against these people in Kosovo. And that idea has
to be taken out of their heads.
GEN.
WESLEY CLARK: Well, NATO is the agency, the alliance of 16 sovereign
nations that is capable of applying credible threats of force and, if
necessary, applying force. President Milosevic has felt NATO's hand
in the past. It was NATO in 1995 which I think ultimately persuaded
him to cease his support of the conflict in Bosnia and brought the conflict
to a conclusion that Richard Holbrooke and the team did at Dayton. And
I can recall very well President Milosevic saying at the time to us
in Belgrade, as we were discussing with him and the bombing had begun,
saying "you must stop this bombing, it will not promote peace." And
of course it was precisely the thing which provided the key incentive
there to end this conflict. Now, this is a different situation. But
it is NATO that has the capacity to apply force, to threaten force and
do it effectively.
ELIZABETH
FARNSWORTH: Looking at the NATO planning, would NATO have to take action
against both the Serbian security forces but also against the Kosovo
Liberation Army, the K.L.A.? 
GEN.
WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think NATO credibility is very, very good in Kosovo
and in Europe. This is an institution that's stepped up to every problem,
it's proven itself to be extremely responsive and adaptive. Now in this
case we have got a whole family of plans, ranging from the lightest
and the smallest to something much, much heavier. It's going to depend
on the actions of the parties, the diplomatic goals that are established
and what we in the military are going to be looking for are clearly
defined missions, clear objectives and we'll recommend the appropriate
military actions to attain those objectives if required. 
ELIZABETH
FARNSWORTH: General Clark, what's at stake here? Why should Americans
be concerned about what happens in this province in southern Serbia
in Yugoslavia? 
GEN.
WESLEY CLARK: No, I'm not. I've got every confidence in the decision-making
processes in all of our nations. I think this is an alliance that when
it starts to work a problem it may take a while to work it. And those
who might be on the other side have got to be careful and not be deceived
because when NATO comes together, it comes together with an iron grip.
And once it grips a problem, it doesn't let go. So I'm very confident
in NATO.