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| HELPING HANDS | |
 April 19, 1999 
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Following a report on the situation, Margaret Warner discusses caring for thousands of refugees with Jeffrey Colyer, a physician with the International Medical Corps, and Dennis McNamara, director of the International Protection Division of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees.
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MARGARET WARNER: Mr. McNamara, first of all, give us an update on the situation on the ground in terms of the refugee flow today.
MARGARET WARNER: There are reports that the flow has tapered off yet again today. Does that jibe with your information? DENNIS McNAMARA: Well, as has characterized this movement, it has suddenly dropped from 20,000 in 24 hours, we got virtually zero in the next 12 hours. And this is one of the worrying characteristics. Why is it stopping? Why are people not coming on a consistent basis, which raises questions about whether they are being allowed to come or forced to come. And it makes emergency planning extremely difficult. MARGARET WARNER: Did the flow just suddenly stop? Could you tell anything from the border about what was happening? Did you see Yugoslav forces stopping or turning back refugees, or did it just kind of taper off?
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| Registration is a massive undertaking. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Dr. Colyer, you're nodding. What do the refugees that you have seen coming across the border-- what do they tell you about what's going on inside Kosovo in that way?
MARGARET WARNER: Mr. McNamara, give us some additional numbers, if you would in terms of the 600,000 that have come across the border, how many are in camps? How many are in private homes? And how many have you had to evacuate to other countries? DENNIS McNAMARA: In Macedonia and Albania, more than half of them are clearly in homes. In Albania, probably two-thirds of them are in homes. The rest are in camps. But the figure varies, and the figures change dramatically in a short space of time. The registration is underway. But registration is a massive undertaking with these sort of numbers. In terms of movements to third countries we have 70,000 places offered by European countries, plus places offered by the United States, Canada, or Australia. Out of those numbers, about 15,000 plus people have been moved so far. And they are continuing to be moved on a daily basis. We have undertaken with the Macedonian authorities, in view of the difficulty they have in hosting this influx, that we will step up this program. And we are in consultation with the receiving governments now to step up that evacuation, that humanitarian evacuation to ease the pressure, particularly on the government of the Republic of Macedonia.
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| MARGARET WARNER: Well, give us an idea, Doctor, what the
conditions are like inside the camps.
DR. JEFFREY COLYER: Inside Kukes, Albanian, the people are very friendly to us. However, most of these kids either have diarrhea or some sort of upper respiratory infection. And we're very concerned about them. The conditions in these camps are improving on a day-to-day basis. We're starting to get the food supply there and the medical supplies there. But we really need to get the chain going even more. And I think the pipeline is starting to work.
DENNIS McNAMARA: Well, in Macedonia, first, we just had an agreement today from the government which we very much welcome to build another camp for up to 20,000 people and a transit facility for up to 5,000 people. As the doctor said, the home hospitality in both countries is a fantastic effort and a really positive aspect of this whole tragic situation. In Albania, we are in the process with the help of military logistical and other support from NATO, to construct new camps urgently. That's underway. The Kukes Center that the doctor referred to, of course, is the first real center as refugees come out of the border area, but, as you know, we are moving them down on a daily basis into the camps further South. That's essential both for the conditions -- Kukes conditions are not satisfactory for longer-term stay -- and because of security. We don't want refugees near that dangerous, militarized border for any longer than possible. MARGARET WARNER: You both have been involved in refugee crisis, starting with you, Dr. Colyer. How does this compare to other recent crises you've been involved in, in terms of the acuteness of the situation for the refugees themselves?
MARGARET WARNER: But I'm talking about in the camps in terms of the ability to take care of them in a humane way. DR. JEFFREY COLYER: We're starting to do that. But we need more money to help us accomplish those things. We're working very closely with UNHCR in order to accomplish those in providing them with medical supplies and latrines, but creating that system takes time and it does take money. DENNIS McNAMARA: Could I just come back to your first question, if I may? MARGARET WARNER: Please do.
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Well, thank you both very much. DR. JEFFREY COLYER: Thank you. |
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MARGARET
WARNER: Two perspectives now on the refugee crisis, Dennis McNamara
is with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees office in Geneva.
He is currently director of UNHCR.'s international protection division.
On May 1st, he will become UNHCR's special envoy to the former Yugoslavia
and Albania. And Jeffrey Colyer is a physician and volunteer for the
International Medical Corps, a privately-funded relief group. He returned
yesterday from Kukish, Albania. Welcome, gentlemen. 
DENNIS
McNAMARA, United Nations: Well, with a massive influx of 20,000 plus
in 24 hours last weekend, we now have more than 600,000 Kosovar refugees
in the immediate region; 365,000 in Albania, 132,000 in the Former Yugoslav
Republic of Macedonia; 73 ½ thousand in the Republic of Montenegro,
and 32,000 in Bosnia-Herzegovina. 
DENNIS
McNAMARA: Well, it stopped almost at a point arbitrarily. There were
some signs of a couple of tractors of people heading back into Kosovo
from the border region. Some refugees said they had got there and weren't
allowed through -- went back and came again and came through. Some information
suggests that there are big groups inside the borders trying to get
through. But it doesn't -- it does seem to us that the flow is being
controlled in some way. 
DR.
JEFFREY COLYER, Physician: Well, they've had the same experience. They
found that the borders are sometimes arbitrarily stopped for them. The
border is mined all along. In fact, we were there when they were setting
up a new set of mines just along the roadway that these refugees need
to pass. And we -- it's very difficult to actually see across and know
how many people are actually there. But they're having a very difficult
time of it. 
DR.
JEFFREY COLYER: In Kukes, where I was, there were approximately 100,000
people living there now. This was normally a city of 15,000 people.
About half of those have been put up with host families. So we have
50,000 people living with 15,000 people. The other 50,000 were out in
camps or with their tractors there. That number is very fluid. And it's
quite a wonderful thing that people are taking them into their homes.
But it really compounds the problems that are on the ground. We have
a city of 15,000 people where the water supply can no longer support
them. And the medical problems there could be a big problem. 
MARGARET
WARNER: Mr. McNamara, are the camps-- do they have enough shelter, food,
sanitation, health care and so on? I'm now talking about the camps both
in Albania and Macedonia. 
DR.
JEFFREY COLYER: Well, I think everyone was caught flat-footed. Many
of these people had to leave their homes on literally five minutes'
notice. When I'm up at the border and talking with these people, they
tell you some of the soldiers came to our houses. They pointed a gun
at us, told us we had five minutes to leave. All they could do was put
clothes on their kids and run. 
DENNIS
McNAMARA: The special characteristics of this situation, I would suggest,
are threefold. The first is that, as the doctor said, no one, governments,
agencies, or observers, seem to have intelligence for warning of us
of this influx in late March. We were all partly prepared. But we're
also all to some extent, overwhelmed because we didn't have any advanced
warning, which is very surprising, on the edge of Europe, these days.
That's the first issue that I think strikes us. The second is we have
no international presence whatsoever within the province of Kosovo from
where the refugees are coming. Usually, we have a presence on both sides
of the border. But we don't have that presence. And it's very difficult
to assess the conditions and the magnitude of the activities going on
without that presence. And the third aspect, I think which is very unique,
is that the refugee issue has been an objective now of both parties
of the conflict. On the one hand, there is a clear intention to expel
nationals, create refugees and stateless persons as a part of the Yugoslav
offensive. On the other hand, the safe return of refugees has now become
a prime objective of the NATO response. So we not only have a highly
politicized situation, which we have a highly militarized one as well
in many aspects. We always had politicized refugee situations. We've
been involved in all of them over the last 50 years. But this combines,
military, political, diplomatic, security pressures in a way which is
somewhat unique.