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| A PLAN FOR PEACE? | |
 May 6, 1999 
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The G-8 countries, the world's seven leading industrial nations plus Russia, have agreed to a framework for bringing an end to the conflict in Yugoslavia. Jim Lehrer talks with four Senators about the contents of the proposal.
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| JIM LEHRER: And to four US Senators: Republicans John Warner of Virginia, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and Richard Lugar of Indiana, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee; Democrats Carl Levin of Michigan, the ranking Democratic member of the Armed Services Committee, and Chris Dodd of Connecticut, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Warner, what do you think of the new peace plan? | |||||||||||||||||||
| The peace proposal. | ||||||||||||||||||||
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SEN.
JOHN WARNER: It's a constructive first start of a diplomatic process. I have it
right here: Eight points written in the customary vague language, so each side
can place JIM LEHRER: Senator Levin, do you think that it's a very good first step? SEN. CARL LEVIN: This is a very important step towards
achieving NATO's goals. Some of the language is subject perhaps to interpretation,
but the key language here is absolutely crystal clear, "the safe and free
return of all JIM LEHRER: Senator Lugar, how would you characterize this proposal? SEN. RICHARD
LUGAR: Well, essentially the proposal is a working out of our compromises with
the Russians. At this point, it really doesn't get to the heart of the matter,
whether President Milosevic has any intent of being a party to this. And the president,
when he said it was a step forward, is talking about our relations with the Russians.
The dilemma of this agreement, and my colleagues are correct, the language is
vague, does not mention that all of the Serbians have to get out. And that --
it is a basic point for us. Nor does it mention that NATO has to come in. It talks
about an international force, but NATO is not mentioned. Secretary Albright on
your show was indicating that the United States is going to be there, but that's
JIM LEHRER: All right. Senator Dodd, what do you think of this thing? SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD: Well, I agree with -- I think basically there seems to be a lot of agreement here. One thing has changed this evening that wasn't true 24 hours ago. And at this juncture, it's Mr. Milosevic against the world, and that was not the case prior to today. So I'm very hopeful here in light of the decision to let these three servicemen out under the auspices of Reverend Jackson the decision to have Ibraham Rugova now and his family be able to leave Serbia and go to Italy, those are two indications that this bombing effort, the political efforts, the diplomatic efforts, the resolve of NATO over the last 45 days during this air attack have I think proven to be valuable and worthwhile. And again, I think some vague language here, but the basic principles, as I read them-- and obviously, we'll get a lot of different interpretations-- but that is, I read it as Serbian forces police and military would have to leave Kosovo, that a security force of which the only security force that I know of at its core that could do the job would be NATO forces. Now,
maybe under some UN auspices here, but I know of no UN force that could probably
keep the peace that would be essential here if this agreement is to work, would
be a part of this, an autonomous relationship for Kosovo here that would have
to be worked out, an international group that would provide some sort of governmental
operation in the interim. And then, as I've understood it, as | 
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| Russia's involvement. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| JIM LEHRER: Now, Senator Warner, Senator Lugar pointed out, too, that this is with a deal, basically with Russia at this point. Does the fact that Russia has made this deal, is that a signal, a significant signal that probably Milosevic will buy it, as well? SEN. JOHN WARNER: First, let's drop the word deal. JIM LEHRER: Okay. SEN. JOHN WARNER: I don't say that critically. This is just an initial
start, a positive and a constructive one, and JIM LEHRER: But do you believe that Russia can now influence Milosevic? In other words, how important is it that Russia signed on, Senator Warner? SEN. JOHN WARNER: I think it's quite important. And that's key. But the Russians want to go back up on the high stage of world diplomacy. And they see this as an opportunity to once again say, "we're up ranking with the superpower certainly as it relates to affecting diplomacy." But we're a long way-- and the Russians have got to hang tough and back eventually the basic principles that NATO has laid down and which so much risk of men and women have taken to bring this about. That's the important thing. We cannot abandon that. JIM LEHRER: Senator Levin, how do you read Russia's ability now to bring Milosevic in on this -- I won't call it a deal -- on this proposal? SEN. CARL LEVIN: It's very important
that Russia be part of this agreement. They are now. Milosevic is just totally
isolated. He was all but isolated before this agreement because Russia had not
joined with the rest of Europe until today. But now Russia and all of Europe is
JIM LEHRER: Have you, Senator Levin, or any of you Senators, had any kind of indirect word that Milosevic is on board, I mean that the Russians would not have done this if Milosevic had - SEN. CARL LEVIN: I made inquiry to the appropriate officials just before I entered your studio, and the answer I got, no indication whatsoever from Milosevic. And frankly, he's going to take his time. He's not going to leap at this. He has been very clever in the way he has managed to achieve, I think, a number of his goals. And now, remember, this says what Milosevic must do. He's going to come back and say, "Well, this is what you must do." And there's going to be quite a wide gap, and that's why the unity of NATO is important. And we must always remember the risk of the men and women of the armed forces of many nations that brought this together. We cannot sell those people short -- nor can we sell the Kosovars short. Now, mind you, the Kosovars-- I don't know to the extent they've been consulted, and it's important that this force going in have the credibility, which I believe a US contingent must provide, for them to do the basic disarmament and to agree to return to their villages and renew their lives. JIM LEHRER: Senator Lugar, how do see this - and how do we bridge that? SEN. RICHARD LUGAR: Well, I think there are two JIM LEHRER: I saw that. It was almost at the same time. |  | |||||||||||||||||||
| A disconnect? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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SEN. RICHARD LUGAR: Yes. Surely a disconnect between the president of the country and whoever was out there representing him - the foreign minister, I gather, with Secretary Albright. The other disconnect reports - President Milosevic -- you've achieved the mission, essentially we have rejected KLA, the Kosovo Liberation Army, we've kept NATO at bay, and we by -- " I don't see anything in this news that's very happy for us. The only happy people are those reported in Belgrade whose lights came on and are very cheerful about life. Now, that's not the way it was supposed to be reading, I think, tonight. And the fact is Milosevic is no closer to doing anything about this, nor have the Russians demonstrated an ability to deliver. Now, clearly Chernomyrdin or somebody will go to Belgrade and try to get them onboard, but I would just say best of luck for a deal that I've already characterized as vague. JIM LEHRER: So you don't think that the fact that the Russians are onboard means anything in terms of whether Milosevic will buy this or not? SEN. RICHARD LUGAR: No, I don't think it does make any difference. We have our own problem with the Russians. And the president, from the beginning, has said, in addition to solidarity of the alliance, the importance of the Russian relationship came sort of right after that, as well as apparently minimizing the expense of this war, both in lives and in money. Now, with those objectives in mind, we have some constraints. JIM LEHRER: So Senator Dodd, we keep bombing, right? SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD: Well yes. I think what JIM LEHRER: And Senator Levin, you share that optimism, do you not? SEN.
CARL LEVIN: Well, it's not a matter of optimism. It's a matter of realism here,
that the only way Milosevic will bend is if we keep the military pressure on.
And if he's JIM LEHRER: Gentlemen, thank you all four very much. |  | |||||||||||||||||||
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their
interpretations. And now, after a period, and I hope it is short, that Milosevic
will issue his equally vague response to it and then let's hope some hard bargaining
can take place. But in the meantime, we should not let up one bit, either on the
air campaign -- and let us pause for a moment to say how grateful we are to the
men and women of the armed forces, wherever they may be, either in the cockpits
or supporting those in flight. What they -- they brought about this. They brought
about this. And they've got to keep it up and keep a stiff upper lip until there
is absolute clarity that the basic goals that NATO has been unified on, these
many weeks are met. 
refugees
and displaced persons to their homes." And that is the goal of NATO. That
is what this commitment is. And unless the forces are there that will guarantee
their security, they're not going to go home. So this deal that was worked out
here, including Russia, and it's very important that Russia be involved, as it
is, in this agreement, is going to be proven by the return of all the refugees.
And in order for that to happen, I agree with Senator Warner, we must continue
to keep the bombing campaign going at full strength and indeed, even fuller. 
currently
not a part of this agreement, and the president was telling these people that
are in wretched circumstances, they're going to come back and go back in freedom.
That's our objective. But in order for that to happen, the Serbs have to get out.
The conditions that have NATO there as a core of an international force, have
to be clear. And somebody's got to spend a lot of money building houses and infrastructure
so there'll be something to come home to -- because if the refugees stay in Macedonia
and Albania, this situation collapses. 
well,
here, we've borne much of the burden on the air campaign, because frankly, we
have the technology and the capability, as Senator Warner and Carl Levin and Dick
Lugar would certainly verify, as experts in this area. But I think it's going
to be fair now for us to expect that Europe would pick up the sizable burden on
the humanitarian efforts. This is their neighborhood, it's their backyard, and
certainly we can be helpful, but I think it would be not unfair to expect them
now to pick up the lion's share of this part of the equation. 
Russia
has played an important role. Russia was not agreed to these points here 72 hours
ago, 24 hours ago. And so I think the secretary of state and others have, indeed
the president's presence in Europe, I think was a clear sign that Russia felt
now is the time to indicate they would move with the G-8 in adopting these eight
principles. But we're a long way from a deal. And we will get there if NATO can
hold together 19 nations with the same strength they showed throughout this conflict.
there.
Milosevic is completely isolated. And these terms are really quite specific in
a lot of ways. For instance, it says, and I'm quoting, withdrawal from Kosovo
of military, police and paramilitary forces. Well, there are Serbian forces there
in Kosovo, so there's no other possible reference but Serbia. But this is a very
significant step to include Russia now in the world community, and I think it
just isolates Milosevic more than ever. He's got no place to turn --diplomatically
and militarily -- I think he's taking a very severe beating. 
significant
disconnects. The first is that, in the same dispatches from Reuters that say the
Russians are aboard, it points out that President Boris Yeltsin was giving a speech
and said the world is on the brink of war. Now, there's a disconnect -- 
Senator
Warner said is accurate here. We've been down this road with Mr. Milosevic in
the past where we've been on the brink of maybe some agreement, and we found out
later that it was only the mill tear pressure that ultimately brought him to an
agreement on Bosnia Herzegovina. Let me just say I have tremendous respect for
Dick Lugar and he's one of the real experts in the Senate on foreign policy. But
I don't think we ought to underestimate this decision by the foreign minister.
Whether there's some disagreement between Boris Yeltsin, that's a legitimate point
to look at. But let's work off the facts as we know them. The fact that Russia
has agreed with the G-8 on these points, that Japan has signed on, that all members
but China of the Security Council has now agreed with these provisions, Vegas
they may, although Senator Levin is correct, a number of them seem rather specific,
I think is significant. Now, we don't have a deal yet. But Mr. Milosevic had really
only one ally, and that was Russia. And without that ally, it's going to be very
difficult for them now to proceed, looking as though they've got any support anywhere.
So we're a long way from an agreement, but this is a major step forward. It's
a significant achievement, and I'm hopeful now that Mr. Milosevic may see that
the resolve is there in NATO, that the G-8 and the UN Security Council will have
resolve, and that the further isolated he is leaves him no alternative but to
respond with some offer here that would allow us to achieve a diplomatic result.
totally
isolated diplomatically, we've got to keep the NATO military pressure on. That
is what will produce diplomatic results. But today's step, including Russian now
with the rest of Europe, it seems to me is a very significant step.