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| NATO'S SECRETARY-GENERAL | |
 November 2, 1999 
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NATO's Secretary-General, Lord George Robertson, talks about NATO and European defense issues.
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And Lord Robertson, welcome. LORD ROBERTSON: Nice to be here. |
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| NATO in Kosovo | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Let's look first at the situation in Kosovo. Every week it seems we have another report of attacks, mostly by Albanians and Serbs, though today a NATO-led force had to go in and rescue some Albanians who were attacked by Serbs. Why hasn't the NATO-led force been able to stop these revenge attacks that have driven out -- most of the Serbs out of Kosovo?
MARGARET WARNER: Does NATO have the troops and equipment it needs to do the job on the ground? LORD ROBERTSON: Yes, it does. There are some 50,000 NATO and friends of NATO troops on the ground in Kosovo, and they're making a big difference. I took all of the North Atlantic Council, all the ambassadors to NATO, to Kosovo, the week before last, and we were hugely impressed by General Reinhardt, the German general, who's the new commander of KFOR, and by Bernard Kouchner, the U.N. Special Representative there. And they've got a vision and a grip on the situation which, with the help of the international community and with perhaps some additional resources, they see is going to make a big difference. And that could mean that Kosovo, if it goes wrong, would be a dreadful stain on our reputation. But if it goes right -- and it can go right -- could be a multiethnic democratic model that will show that out of conflict, out of tragedy, we can build something that is new and good for the future.
LORD ROBERTSON: There was a big gap shown in some key capabilities. So despite the fact that we won -- and nobody should underestimate the significance of the victory in Kosovo, and what we were able to achieve in getting the refugees home and stopping the violence -- we've clearly got now to address the fact that we need much more in the way of precision-guided weapons for bombing attacks, because public opinion and international law don't allow us to do carpet bombing. And, therefore, we've got to have the right mechanism for getting military targets and avoiding civilian targets. And largely these assets at the moment are in the hands of the United States, so the European allies need to do more there. In terms of deployable troops who can be sent to trouble spots before they become a crisis, we've got to be able to do more. And at the moment, we've got too many static soldiers who are not trained, who are not deployable, and we haven't got the means of getting them to the trouble spots. So these were deficiencies which did not hinder our victory in Kosovo, but which we want to address if we're going to have a proper balance inside the Atlantic alliance, which is so important to all of us. MARGARET WARNER: There are reports, however, that the German government, for instance, is now talking about cutting its defense budget yet again over the next four years. Do you sense an ambivalence among European members of NATO? I mean, on the one hand, they don't like being dependent on the U.S. as the sole superpower. On the other hand, they don't really want to pay the price, political and otherwise, that it would take. They don't really have the political will it would take to increase defense spending and change the way it's spent.
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| Test ban treaty | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Let's turn to the post-Kosovo environment in the United States. First of all, how do the European members of NATO read or interpret the Senate's rejection of the test ban treaty last month? LORD ROBERTSON: Well, I think that a lot of people, not just the Europeans, were very disappointed that the Senate didn't follow the advice of the administration, and indeed the example of so many other allies. MARGARET WARNER: And letters from... or an editorial by the leaders of three of our leading allies, correct? LORD ROBERTSON: Well, there were a lot of representations made, and it's regrettable that the Senate took that decision. I hope it's not a permanent decision. I hope there are ways back, because the United States is a big example in the world, and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty was, to many people, a signpost along the route against proliferation, against those who might pollute the atmosphere with testing. I haven't given up hope as an individual, and I think others still hope that the Senate will do that. And I had meetings on my visit here with senators. I think that they're looking at it again, and I hope they will look at it again, because we've got to move on this arms control issue. We've got to build a series of milestones that suggest that there is a better way than a new arms race or increased proliferation to go. And some of the concerns that existed in the Senate I think can be addressed and can be answered.
LORD ROBERTSON: Well, there's a great diversity in the United States of opinions and views, even in the Senate, and they cross party lines. So it's very difficult to categorize, and very dangerous, I think, for people outside, or even inside, the U.S.A. to categorize people by groups. I think that there are a lot of concerns. We're at a point in our history, just as we're about to come to the end of the century, about where we go, what the direction is that we are going, and that has led to a number of people seeing the future in very different ways. I don't want to engage in the American presidential election. MARGARET WARNER: Probably a good idea. LORD ROBERTSON: Heavens, I've left elections behind. And the word isolation can mean a lot of things. What is important is that the United States remains engaged in this great alliance of 19 nations. In a world that is increasingly uncertain, unpredictable, with instability rife in every other part of the world, the Atlantic alliance stands there as an island of predictability and of calm and of control. And I think we've got to reinforce that-- the success of Kosovo, but looking into the future as a reservoir of wisdom and common sense in the field of security. That's what I hope to contribute, and I hope that the American people will join us in that. MARGARET WARNER: One other move being contemplated, which President Clinton and the Republicans agree, is trying to renegotiate the antiballistic missile treaty so the U.S. can deploy a limited antimissile defense system. Now, how do the European NATO members feel about that? LORD ROBERTSON: Well, it's not really a debate that has become firmly engaged in people's minds at the moment. National missile defense has really become a matter of a bilateral negotiation and discussion between the United States and Russia at the present moment, but, again, what I hope will happen is that we'll have a transparent, open, inclusive debate where the fears and concerns and, indeed, the solutions adopted by the American administration are shared with allies so that any concerns can be allayed, can be accommodated so that we get the best solution. We want NATO to find the safest way of building the future world. In 1949, 50 years ago, when I was the age of three, some people made very visionary steps to create an alliance to allow you and I to live in the kind of peace and security we've had, which previous generations didn't have. So I think we've got to include ourselves in the discussions and in the dialogue to make certain that we don't make mistakes that could fracture that alliance or possibly make the world less safe. MARGARET WARNER: But right now, are you getting that consultation that you're looking for?
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Well, thank you, Lord Robertson, very much, and good luck in your new job. LORD ROBERTSON: Thank you very much. |
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MARGARET
WARNER: George Robertson took over the NATO post last month, after more
than two years as Britain's defense minister. A one-time anti-nuclear
activist and union organizer in Scotland, he was first elected to parliament
on the Labor ticket in 1978. He became well known for leading a campaign
to ban gun ownership in Britain after a gunman murdered 16 schoolchildren
in his hometown of Dunblane. As defense minister, Robertson took a leading
role in prosecuting the war in Kosovo. In August, as he prepared to
leave that job, Prime Minister Tony Blair made him a life peer, conferring
upon him the title of Lord Robertson.
LORD
ROBERTSON: I think you've got to realize, first of all, that it's less
than 150 days since the conflict, since the war ended after a huge legacy
of violence. So we weren't going to be able to restore law and order
instantaneously, but in June there were 190 murders per 100,000 of the
population, the standard measurement. Last month, there were only 25.
So serious reductions are being made by the KFOR troops in the area.
Less than half of the Serbs who were there before are still there. That
still amounts to some 97,000 and Serbs are coming back into Kosovo every
day because life is better in Kosovo than it is in Serbia. So we're
making big improvements. There's 1,800 U.N. policemen now on the streets
in Kosovo. About half the time of the KFOR troops is devoted to protecting
the minorities. And given the legacy of violence, I think that we've
made big strides very quickly. And although there's still an unacceptable
level of violence, the level violence is less than it is in the city
of Moscow, the City of Johannesburg, and is maybe slightly higher than
New York. But it is still much lower than it was.
MARGARET
WARNER: Now you've said or you said on taking this job that one of the
things you really want to do is to correct the imbalance in the defense
capability between the U.S. and the European members of NATO. How serious
a gap did the Kosovo conflict show? 
LORD
ROBERTSON: Well, we'll see. I think that there is a desire to do more
in the world. There is a desire to rebalance the alliance so that we
are not so dependent on the United States, and that we, therefore, have
got more capabilities that we could use if there was a domestic situation
in Europe where the Americans didn't want to get involved. But I would
make the point that the Europeans actually spend a lot of money on defense.
If you take the European NATO allies together, they spend something
like two-thirds of what the United States spend on defense. But we don't
get two-thirds of the capability. We compete with each other, we duplicate
with each other, and perhaps we're spending on the wrong things. So
the first thing to do is to spend more wisely, to spend on the right
equipment and on the right forces, and then some countries may well
have to spend more because they are actually spending too little to
be able to invest in the right equipment and the right forces.
MARGARET
WARNER: But President Clinton, as you know, he saw it as a symbol of
something more. He called it a new isolationism among some Republicans.
The Financial Times of London called it a "new unilaterist
impulse." Do you sense that from your meetings here that there's
a pulling back from foreign engagement and a more... a greater interest
in going it alone? 
LORD
ROBERTSON: I've been to the Pentagon and to the State Department on
my visit, and I know that there are going to be no decisions taken without
the maximum of consultation. And that is the right way for allies to
behave with each other. There are serious concerns that need to be addressed
in terms of rogue nation states and those who have got capabilities
that might not be traditionally deterred. We have to address them. But
as an alliance, we are strong. As individual nations, we are subject
to the preys of an uncertain world.