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| THE WACO INVESTIGATOR | |
 September 9, 1999 
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Attorney General Janet Reno has appointed John Danforth to investigate the role of the FBI during the Branch Davidian standoff. Margaret Warner discusses the appointment with the former senator.
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MARGARET WARNER: Welcome, Senator. Tell us--why are you doing this?
MARGARET WARNER: You said this morning that you were going to look at the dark questions. What did you mean by the "dark questions?" SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: Well, it's been very important for me -- ever since the attorney general approached me -- to have a defined mission, so that this isn't something that just sort of spreads all over the place. And I wanted to make it clear that what we are going to be looking at are two fundamental questions -- One: Was there a cover up? I have no preconceived idea of that one way or another, but that's a question; and Two: Did federal government people do something really bad, namely, did they kill people? We are not going to get into the questions of judgment. We are not going to get into the questions of, you know, whether it was a good idea for the alcohol, tobacco, and firearms people to take on the Branch Davidians or whether it was a good idea or a bad idea to raid the complex; those are judgment calls. But our country can survive good judgment calls, bad judgment calls. What really threatens the integrity of the country is if truly bad things were done, and that's what we're going to look at. And, as I say, I have an open mind on that. |
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| Answering the dark questions | ||||||||||||||||||||
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SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: Well, I don't minimize those questions about judgment and about, you know, the use of the loud speakers to unsettle the people and so on. And I'm sure the questions of judgment are important; and they've been asked by congressional committees already. And they will be asked by the media, and they will be asked by the American people. And that's part of our general process in America. I don't think you put in place a special counsel with subpoena powers and with grand jury powers to ask that kind of thing. And I think what we really have to do is to focus on the questions that would be - you know, if they were answered one way, it would be just totally unacceptable for our country - and see what the truth is and get the truth out. MARGARET WARNER: What kind of assurances have you been given about the independence you're going to have? SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: Total. I wouldn't have taken the job otherwise. I've been given all the authority I need. Now, if we have a public report, we have to watch it, because once you use a grand jury, it's no longer public; it's secret. But I've been given all of the investigative authority that I need to do the job. I've been assured of total independence to do it. And there's no doubt in my mind that I have that. MARGARET WARNER: What about access to documents, or access to people you want to question who work for the government now at Justice or at FBI? |
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| Constructing an investigation | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: As you know, other independent counsels have complained about this administration -- I'm sure they've had complaints about other administrations - that getting documents is really like pulling teeth; it's very difficult. Do you have any reason - were you given any assurances that it will be different for you? SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: Well, I've certainly asked for and been given the assurance that I will be able to do my thing, and that is to look into the facts and to do so thoroughly, and to make a presentation that's objective and that is my own conclusion. And I have no doubt at all about that. Now, bear in mind I've been on the job for a few hours and we haven't really started the investigation. What I want to do at the outset before I start the investigation is to try to give a very clear picture to the American people of what I'm doing, what the limitations are, what I'm doing, what I'm not doing, how this is about finding facts, rather than making value judgments.
SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: Insofar as we can, we're going to do that from the private sector. And I'm going to use lawyers and others that I get from the private sector. It may be that we will have to have some support from investigators from various parts of the federal government, but they're certainly not going to come from the Justice Department, because you don't have people who are being investigated doing the investigating. |
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| Uncovering the facts | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Now, at what point would you envision having to need to go to a grand jury? SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: If we come to the point of using grand jury powers, that would have an effect on being able to make a public report. And one of the objectives is to have a report that we can make to the American people that they can see. So that's something that we're always going to have to bear in mind. But the primary objective is to find the facts. And if the only way to find the facts is to convene a grand jury and subpoena people and so forth, that's what we'll do. MARGARET WARNER: So you mean, in other words, if an FBI agent or someone who works for Justice or anyone were to essentially refuse to cooperate, then you might have no alternative?
MARGARET WARNER: And time frame, I know this morning you didn't want to set a time frame. SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: Right. MARGARET WARNER: Do you want to give us any idea? SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: The first objective is to be -- just let the chips fall where they may - just tell the truth. You know, this report has to be credible and it has to be right. The second objective -- it has to be thorough. Now, consistent with being truthful and factual and being thorough, I hope that it can be done expeditiously. I hope it doesn't drag on and on and. And that is one of the reasons for a defined mission. But it would be a mistake to say there is a certain date that's a drop-dead date. |
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| Waco - an unending legacy? | ||||||||||||||||||||
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MARGARET WARNER: Why do you think Waco - you said you took this job because it was - you felt it was so important -- why do you think Waco has such resonance now, six years after the fact? SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: I don't know. I think that that would be, you know, maybe a question to ask a sociologist or someone who's really a student of these kinds of things. I don't know. But I think that sort of the big questions that this raises are: you know, what's the federal government for, and is it serving the people, or is it doing something basically unacceptable to the people? And it's -- the issues are as fundamental as the beginning of the Declaration of Independence, having to do with purpose of government and the consent of the governed, and that's why I took the job.
SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: Well, I think under our system the purpose of government, as Jefferson, you know, told us in the Declaration of Independence was to secure the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And if government doesn't do that, and subverts it, that is undermining the whole integrity of our system. And he also said that government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed. So if the public loses confidence in the government, that is something that's very serious. I don't know what happened here, but I know we're dealing with matters that have to be explored in a very, very serious fashion. MARGARET WARNER: Do you think you can ever satisfy the conspiracy theorists for whom - and many Americans, I think, for whom -- Waco has become the symbol of government abuse of that power? SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: Well, I can say that I have a totally open mind on what happened. I have no outside knowledge of what happened. I intend to find out. And I intend to make known what I find out. And I hope that people would trust that I'm trying to do the right thing. And that's all I can hope for, really. MARGARET WARNER: Finally, as you know, some independent counsels and special prosecutors and special counsels themselves become objects of controversy, and their reputations almost become diminished by it. Have you taken any lessons from that? Is there, is there any way you think you can avoid that?
MARGARET WARNER: All right. Well, thanks, Senator. Good luck. SEN. JOHN DANFORTH: Thank you. |
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SEN.
JOHN DANFORTH: This is important. I think it's important to the country
to get the facts out, to understand what happened, and for the American
people to understand what happened. So that's why I'm doing it.
MARGARET
WARNER: Why not look at some of those judgment calls - because as you
know - the critics of this say in a way the die might have already been
cast by the time the decision was made and once the decision was made
to raid the compound?
SEN.
JOHN DANFORTH: Yes, that is there, and there's no doubt in my mind that
we'll be able to question anybody we want to question.
MARGARET
WARNER: Now, since the FBI and its conduct is very much - much at issue
here, who's going to do the legwork? Who's going to do the investigating,
the interviewing?
SEN.
JOHN DANFORTH: That's right.
MARGARET
WARNER: Explain that a little more.
SEN.
JOHN DANFORTH: You know, I left government five years ago, and I went
back home, and I went back home to be a private person, and I went back
home with my reputation intact. And now I'm in a situation where I am
absolutely sure that people - whatever I do - are going to start, you
know, blasting away. And do I like that position? No, I don't. But I
think this is an important thing to do.