TAMING THE JUNGLE JULY 9, 1996 TRANSCRIPT

---

An outdated inspection system that has protected the nation's meat supply since 1906 will soon be replaced with modern, scienctific methods. Instead of an inspection service based on visual examinations, packing plants will test for E. coli, salmonella and other contaminants. The United Stated Department of Agriculture's overhaul of the meat safety procedures is the most sweeping since inspections began in response to Upton Sinclair's The Jungle.

---

Elizabeth Farnsworth outlines the USDA's overhaul of its meat inspection methods.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Now for more on the new meat and poultry inspection rules we turn to Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman. Thanks for being with us, Mr. Secretary.

DAN GLICKMAN, Secretary of Agriculture: Thank you.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: It seems sort of anachronistic, this sniff-and-poke-and-smell method. Why did it take so long to come up with these more scientific methods?

SEC. GLICKMAN: Well, I think that for a long time we felt that system worked. I kind of talk about it a little bit like the old system was going to a general practitioner who'd poke around your body and kind of know what was wrong with you. But in recent years we've found that you often times need to do some testing and go to a specialist. The bacteria are more serious now. The problems are more serious in terms of food-born illnesses, and we needed to go to a specialty-based system, and I would point out that President Clinton asked us to do that back in 1993, and after 90 years we're finally there.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Why are the bacteria more serious now?

SEC. GLICKMAN: Well, I think it has to do with the eating pattern of America, you know, a lot of outside eating, restaurant eating. I think that it has to do with the fact that cooking techniques have probably changed, and, you know, the same way it's happened with the bacteria in dealing with penicillin and other kinds of antibiotics, bacteria are just tougher. They're more resistant. So we have to do a better job to make the food system safer.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: I've seen praise for these measures from groups ranging from consumer organizations like the Center for Science and the Public Interest to the National Cattlemen's Association. How'd you manage to come up with something that pleased so many groups?

SEC. GLICKMAN: It seems like a miracle. We worked very hard. The rule took a little longer than I would have liked because we worked closely with industry and with consumer groups and the academic community to come up with something that was sensible but tough. What we did not want to do was micro-manage industry, to tell them everything they had to do to clean this instrument, to cut this way. That's what we want to get away from. But at the same time, we had to have a system that built on our good inspectors who can see a lot of the problem but not all the problems. So we had to come up with the kind of testing, the timing of testing, who would do what kind of testing, and perhaps one of the most significant of all things for the first time we will have performance standards on salmonella that the industry, the meat and poultry industry will have to meet. It just took some time to get that all together, but I think we did it sensibly enough that we got most people to agree with us.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Explain how it will work. Let's start with E. coli, the bacteria that I gather is, is always in cattle intestines and can sometimes contaminate the food. This is mostly up to the industry to find E. coli, is that--

SEC. GLICKMAN: That's correct.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: --right, and to test for it?

SEC. GLICKMAN: They will test for it. We will, of course, be aware of the testing procedures. Now there is--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: There will still be inspectors in the--in the plants, just like--

SEC. GLICKMAN: There will be inspectors in the plants. The inspectors will be doing a lot of what they do now, which is still looking, seeing, smelling. You still need that hands-on approach in this world, but the inspectors will also be looking and working with the companies as they test for E. coli, as those tests come in to identify problems, then you will use what's called the Hasup procedure, which is basically a systems approach to find out where those E. coli are and how we're going to get rid of them. And this is part of a science-based procedure that we haven't done as of now.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: But in this case the inspectors are mostly verifying that the industry's policing itself.

SEC. GLICKMAN: That, and they're also continuing to look to see if there are visible problems there. But by and large, our inspectors will go through some change in what they do. They will be doing more working with industry on testing, verifying problems, and then working with industry to correct those problems which will be much more quantifiable because there are scientific tests.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And salmonella is different. In that case, am I wrong, the inspectors do the testing themselves?

SEC. GLICKMAN: That's correct. And--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Why the difference?

SEC. GLICKMAN: Well, we made the judgment that salmonella was perhaps a more critical thing to test for to determine health and safety issues for the purposes of public safety and that there needed to be standards for salmonella so that when meat and poultry was going through the system they would meet a certain level of standard and we determined that that was a government job to do. There was some conflict on that, but I think we finally chose the right procedure to do that. So, as I said, this is the first time that we'll actually have a standard that says to meet plant A or poultry plant B you must meet this standard; you can have no more contamination than X, and if you do, you have to work to get it down. And if you can't get it down, then we will take the appropriate disciplinary action.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: I was surprised in reading about this that there is such a high level of salmonella. I believe, did I see a figure that said 49 percent of turkey parts or turkey--turkeys have salmonella?

SEC. GLICKMAN: Well, I think that you have to look at those numbers and understand that there is industry averages, there are product averages. There is a high level of base contamination of salmonella in raw product. That's one of the reasons why how clean you keep your plant will reduce that amount and it's one of the reasons why we also strongly suggest that consumers recognize that another part of this meat and poultry inspection system is handling and cooking meat and poultry correctly at the end of the process. But, yes, there is this level of germs, pathogens, salmonella in meat and poultry products, and that's one of the reasons what we have to do is using this science-based system, we're going to get the levels of this down. Up until now, the only way to identify it is looking for it. And you can't see these little bugs with your eyes very well, so you need the microscopes, you need the testing equipment, and then by doing these tests and by setting these performance standards, we will reduce the level of contamination in meat and poultry, and I think that's very positive news for the American consumer.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: What's the penalty? Let's say that I own a poultry plant and I don't meet the standards. Do I get shut down?

SEC. GLICKMAN: Well--

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Do I get another chance?

SEC. GLICKMAN: Well, the rules are meant to use good judgment and common sense. I mean, a lot of it as it relates to right now depends on how bad of an actor are you, are you making good faith effort to comply, how clean is your plant, how sanitized it is. I mean, we have the full authority to go from small fines to shutting down plants to criminal penalties, and we will retain those authorities. But the goal in these rules is to work together with the industry and with consumer groups and the academic groups and government to try to make meat and poultry safer and cleaner.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And we--I've read figures that the industry will have to pay, what, $80 to $100 million a year to start all of this and to get the, the machinery and scientific equipment in their plants, is that right, or is it higher?

SEC. GLICKMAN: That's what it's estimated. And it's also estimated about 1/10 of a cent per pound for the consumer. But the benefits are extraordinary. First of all, you lose one person, one kid because of a salmonella outbreak or an E. coli outbreak. As far as I'm concerned, that family, that's worth that amount and 10 times more. And second of all, livestock is the largest part of American agriculture--meat and poultry, turkey and lamb and all the products. That's the biggest part of it, economically to farmers and ranchers and workers and meatpacking plants and to food people, the knowledge that food is safe gives public confidence that our food supply is safe, which means they'll buy more of it here and the rest of the world will buy more of our product as well.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Well, Mr. Secretary, thank you very much for being with us.

SEC. GLICKMAN: You're welcome, Elizabeth.

REGIONS TOPICS RECENT PROGRAMS ABOUT US FEEDBACK SUBSCRIPTIONS / FEEDS:

Support the kind of journalism done by the NewsHour...Become a member of your local PBS station.
PBS Online Privacy Policy Copyright ©1996- MacNeil/Lehrer Productions. All Rights Reserved.