NEWSMAKER: ALBRIGHT AUGUST 7, 1997 TRANSCRIPT

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In response to fraying Arab-Israeli relations, Secretary Albright has announced the Administration's plans to revive the peace process. She speaks with Margaret Warner.

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A RealAudio version of of this segment is available. July 30, 1997: A discussion on the terrorist bombings in a Jerusalem market. July 9, 1997: A Newsmaker interview with Sec. Albright discussing the future of Europe. May 20, 1997: The new defense plan as seen by John McCain, a Republican from Arizona and Carl Levin, a Democrat from Michigan. May 14, 1997: Sec. of State Albright discusses Russia's coming to terms with NATO. Outside Links: Madeleine Albright's Web site maintained by the State Department U.S. State Department

MARGARET WARNER: Welcome, Madame Secretary.

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: It's great to be here, Margaret.

MARGARET WARNER: Thanks. Today in an Israeli newspaper it was reported that Yasser Arafat had accused the Israeli government of essentially waging war on the Palestinians. He said there was going to be a giant explosion. No one will be able to stop it. How did you read those words?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Margaret, yesterday when I gave my speech, I focused very much on the fact that we were all appalled by the terrorist acts that have taken place in Jerusalem in the market; that it was very important for there to be a way to deal with the violence; that we had to eliminate the violence; that people couldn't operate. The Palestinian people, the Israeli people were suffering from violence; that it was essential that Yasser Arafat deal with the violence and that he--gave it 100 percent of his effort.

A crisis of confidence...

I spoke a lot also about the crisis of confidence that is going on in the Middle East, and the importance of each of your leaders and parties to think about what it is that they see or do and how it affects the other party. And so I would hope very much that rhetoric be--the level of rhetoric be lessened and lowered, so that a--this crisis of confidence can end and so that there can be a rebuilding. These are partners. And Chairman Arafat had committed himself to a peace process. And that kind of language is not appropriate.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, Prime Minister Netanyahu has also had some hot words for the Palestinians. He likened the measures he's taking against the Palestinians to say sanctions that the U.S. imposes like Libya that export terrorism. Would you put that in the same category?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: I think again that is an analogy that simply does not work. The whole situation is totally different and while we respect the need for a prime minister, Prime Minister Netanyahu to do what he can to protect the security of the people, using analogies that don't fit doesn't prove any point. And I would make the same point about using rhetoric and language that inflames the situation, rather than tries to lower the tension. What I spoke about again yesterday was the necessity for understanding that there is a partnership here. What happened in Madrid and Oslo was that these two parties committed themselves to work together, mutual recognition. They crossed a threshold about that, and forgetting that they're partners is not the way to move forward.

MARGARET WARNER: Do you think this situation could actually spin out of control?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: I think that it's a dangerous situation, but we have seen how the peace process has survived through all kinds of very bad times. And the reason it survived is--and I'm convinced that this is the reason--it is because the people--the Israelis and the Palestinians--want peace. And it is now time for the leaders to make the hard choices. And so we have to do everything we can as a friend and as also a partner. We're not parties to the conflict, but we clearly are an important partner in this to make sure that it does not.

MARGARET WARNER: All right. So how does the United States— and you talked about this some yesterday--but give us the gist of how you propose to try to solve this. Get past this dangerous point.

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: First of all, Amb. Dennis Ross is going to the region within the next twenty-four to forty-eight hours in order to do what he can about the security situation. As I said earlier, you can't expect people to negotiate in a situation that is--has as many questions about what is happening in terms of the security, and makes people feel as if they're operating under pressure. So he is going to deal with that. I suggested in my speech yesterday that what is very important now is, you know, there is the interim agreement that set out a set of steps not only on the further re-deployments but also on steps to do with opening the harbor and the roads that we need to proceed with that. But what I suggested was that we marry that interim agreement to an acceleration of the final status talks. They may be the ones that obviously have the most difficult issues, but that's what I'm going to try to do.

MARGARET WARNER: And I want to get to that. But let me just also make sure I understand. You have said now, and the President has said you will go to the region. But is it a precondition of your going to the region that Yasser Arafat must take certain steps?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, what we have said is that it is very important to do what has to be done to restore a situation where there is security.

MARGARET WARNER: Specifically.

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, specifically, we want him to take some very--make a 100 percent effort in terms of arresting people and keeping them arrested, not having a revolving door; trying to dismantle the infrastructure of the terrorist groups of Hamas; making sure that intelligence information is developed in a way to show to the Israelis because there are bilateral talks that go on on security, so that they can work off the same script and try to figure out who the people are that need to be arrested and what needs to be done. But I am not--let me just make this clear--I want Amb. Ross to be able to do everything he can to get as much as he can on the security situation. I will then determine an appropriate time to go.

From an interim agreement to permanent status talks.

MARGARET WARNER: Now jumping ahead too, what you hoped for in the political talks, which is to kind of compress, as I understand it, the whole process and deal with kind of everything at once, Arafat rejected that idea when Netanyahu suggested it in April. He thought it was an excuse on the part of the Israeli government to skip all the interim steps which have to do with further withdrawal from the territories. How are you going to persuade Arafat that it's in the Palestinian interest to take this new approach?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, this is exactly what makes the proposal that I made on behalf of the President was that we are marrying the interim agreement. So we're not skipping over the interim agreement.

MARGARET WARNER: You will expect the Israeli government to make commitments to fulfill those interim steps.

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: And at the same time try to accelerate the permanent status talks. And the reason that we think that's important is that if I could just spend a moment--the interim agreement was set up originally in order to try to develop bodies of confidence between the two parties so they could learn to work together on some very important issues to both sides. And then they would go to permanent status talks. What happened was is the interim agreement began to be so difficult to implement that rather than building confidence, it, in fact, drew away from the spirit of confidence, drew it down. And the final status issues seemed so ephemeral, so illusory that people thought they would never get to the dealt with the Jerusalem settlements and refugees and borders, and so we think that it's very important now to take the concept of the final--of the permanent status issues much more real to the people and then so I think we will marry that interim agreement to the permanent status talks.

No regrets not visiting the Middle East.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, you have not been to the Middle East, unlike your predecessor, who went many, many times; you haven't been there yet. In retrospect, do you wish you'd gone sooner to prevent it?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: No. Because I felt, as did the President, that it was very important. We cannot make the decisions for the leaders there. I've said that. So has the President. They have to make the hard decisions. The Secretary of State goes into a region, any region, at a time when the situation is ripe; when either something can be done to lead a process to a finality or the situation is really bad, and for the last six months, it has been kind of in the middle. And we felt that it was much better to do our diplomacy first by Dennis Ross and simultaneously the leaders coming here. You know, every Middle Eastern leader, everybody concerned with the Middle East peace process has been to Washington and met with the President and with me a number of times in the last month.

MARGARET WARNER: All right. Let's shift to Bosnia now. There you have sent former senior State Department official Dick Holbrooke to Bosnia once again. What do you expect him to be able to do?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that what we are looking for, Margaret, is continuing and continuous implementation of the Dayton Agreement. We have made very clear. We had a review of our Bosnia policy and made very clear that there was a deadline action if it had to be taken by all of the parties there. And we have conditioned our assistance on them taking certain steps and meeting those deadlines. We believe that they need to be reminded all the time of that. What I have asked Amb. Holbrooke to do along with Amb. Gelbardt, who is our permanent envoy on this, is to press all the parties to make sure that they do, in fact, live up to their commitments in the federation, which is why they met with President Tudjman and President Izetbegovic, on having the central institution, making sure that the refugees can go back and forth. They're also going to meet with President Milosevic and repeat to him yet again what we all have, is that he has to live up to Dayton, and that whatever he can do in order to make this situation in Republica Serbska--

MARGARET WARNER: That's the Bosnian and Serb--

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Bosnian and Serb part--to make sure that they live up to their commitments. There's a struggle there between two parts--two parties that he makes them cooperate--and that also he do everything he can to make sure that Karadzic goes to the Hague to the War Crimes Tribunal.

MARGARET WARNER: Radovan Karadzic is the former Bosnian Serb leader. But now last time Dick Holbrooke was there, he did negotiate a deal in which Karadzic had to step down from the presidency, at least to the Bosnian Serb entity, and he was also--didn't he sign an agreement he'd stay out of politics. But he hasn't at all.

"...with all due respect, Madame Secretary, I mean, you all have been jawboning those people for two years..."

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: We thought it was a very good idea that Amb. Holbrooke go back and repeat that. Everybody knows him to be a very tough negotiator, and I think it's important that he is there with Amb. Gelbardt, making that statement loud and clear to Milosevic again, so we believe it's the way to get the message clearly to Karadzic.

MARGARET WARNER: But with all due respect, Madame Secretary, I mean, you all have been jawboning those people for two years. The problems remain the same; they remain intractable. Can you ever make this agreement work as long as Karadzic and Ratko Mladic, who was the army commander, remain at large?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: Well, first of all, let me say a lot has happened in two years. I think there is a tendency to think that nothing has happened in Bosnia. That is not true. First of all, the most important thing is that people are not killing each other wantonly anymore, and that I've been to Sarajevo a number of times, and the difference there is just stunning in terms of returning to some semblance of a normal life. You cannot in any way underestimate what has happened, and while it is a slow process and a difficult process, we knew that, but I think that it's very important to recognize that a great deal has been done since the Dayton Accords were signed. Now we do believe that Karadzic is a difficulty, an impediment. We have made that clear. We have made clear that he needs to--that everybody needs to turn over the war criminals; that it's part of what they need to do under Dayton.

MARGARET WARNER: But do you really expect--is that where NATO is putting its faith in getting Karadzic to the Hague to stand trial; that the Yugoslav and Milosevic is going to turn him over?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: They are supposed to do that, but the truth is that we have to make sure that Karadzic understands that he is not supposed to--that he's signed an agreement not to take part in political affairs. We have made that point loud and clear. Karadzic, his day will come, Margaret. There is no statute of limitations on war criminals.

MARGARET WARNER: But are you essentially saying that NATO forces will not arrest him?

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: I think we have always had the feeling that NATO forces have the authority but not the obligation to arrest him, and that is something that the military commanders on the ground follow.

MARGARET WARNER: But there are reports that you would like to see a more assertive policy in that regard.

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: I have believed that the NATO forces are very important and they are doing what I think they should be doing.

MARGARET WARNER: Well, thank you, Madam Secretary. Before you go, we were all fascinated to read that you gave quite a performance at the recent Southeast Asian conference, I think an Evita imitation. And would you like to give us a sample? There was no videotape.

SEC. MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: I think it's never to be repeated. I had a great time but fortunately I don't make my living that way.

MARGARET WARNER: Had to be there, I guess. All right. Thank you, Madam Secretary, very much.

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