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| PERU, DAY 16: NO DEALS
January 2, 1997TRANSCRIPT |
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Peru's president has reiterated his intention not to negotiate with Marxist rebels holding 74 hostages at the Japanese ambassador's home, and will not rule out a military solution. Charles Krause has a background report, followed by a discussion between Jim Lehrer and journalist Jonathan Miller, who is in Peru.
A RealAudio version of this NewsHour segment is available.
Online NewsHour links:
January 2, 1997:
Charles Krause reports on the stalmate in the Peruvian hostage negotiations.
December 23, 1996:
Maxist rebels released 225 hostages from the Japanese ambassador's residence in a "good will" Christmas gesture.
December 19, 1996:
In a stunning attack, a band of Peruvian rebels stormed the Japanese embassy in Lima holding 490 hostage.
Browse the Online NewsHour's Latin America index.
JIM LEHRER: Now, for more on the current situation we go to a reporter on the scene, Jonathan Miller. He's been covering the story for National Public Radio and NBC Radio. I talked with him a short while ago.
JIM LEHRER: Jon Miller, welcome.
JONATHAN MILLER, Journalist: Thank you.
JIM LEHRER: Just in general terms, where do matters stand tonight on the possibility of a resolution of this?
JONATHAN MILLER: Well, there's been little activity today at the compound, itself, but there has been some activity outside. We've heard from President Fujimori today, only the second time he's addressed the Peruvian public on how he wants to approach this. And he restated his position, a position that he's been stating all along, that he does not want to negotiate with these--with these rebels. He would be willing to talk if they lay down their arms, if they release the hostages, but for now, he's not willing to talk.
JIM LEHRER: And as long as he continues to have that position nothing's going to happen, is that your reading of it?
JONATHAN MILLER: Well, things are certainly happening, and I think that what we've seen, this has been more than two weeks, and both sides have been expressing their positions over and over again, and the positions may not have changed much, but certainly the circumstances have changed. You've got fewer people in the residence by quite a lot, hundreds of people have been released.
You've got sort of a series of people who have been tried as mediators and people who are developing roles in this drama. So it's hard to know what is going to contribute to resolution, but certainly things have been happening.
JIM LEHRER: From the rebel's point of view, is their position--does it remain hard and fast on the idea that these 300 of their colleagues who are in prison must be released?
JONATHAN MILLER: Well, Jim, there had been some hope, and people I think reading between the lines of some of the rebels' statements earlier, that they might be willing to accept something less than that, that they might be willing to accept, for example, the commitment on the part of the Peruvian government to improve prison conditions. On Tuesday, the rebel leader, Mr. Serpa, invited in a group of photo journalists and cameramen to have the sort of a strange, impromptu press conference. In that press conference he said, no, this is--I'm not going to accept anything less than what I've asked for, and that is that our comrades--three to four hundred people in the rebel movement who are in prison--be freed from jail.
JIM LEHRER: Now, reading between the lines or otherwise, is there--is it possible to ascertain what the government position is on the issue of improving prison conditions if there were some deal being made along those lines? Is the government willing to go along with that?
JONATHAN MILLER: The government has indicated publicly in the past, before this thing ever happened, that they were willing to look at prison conditions and at human rights conditions in the country. In fact, a couple of major prisons that have had political prisoners in them have been improved, not improved a lot, but have been improved. But it wouldn't be a very politically risky thing at all for the Peruvian government to make some sort of commitment to improving prison conditions.
But what we've heard from President Fujimori is that he's not really willing to make trades for hostages. And so he's not, I think, inclined to make an offer and say, say if you folks let the hostages out, I'll promise to do this to improve the prison conditions or anything.
JIM LEHRER: What is your understanding about what the nature of negotiations are at this point? I mean, who's doing it, and are there--are there really serious negotiations underway?
JONATHAN MILLER: There are talks going on. There are people--there's certainly communication. There's been some discussion of whether there were negotiations is the right word to use, whether contacts, talks, dialogue, all those words have been used--negotiation is kind of out at the moment because clearly there's communication between the two sides but as for negotiation on substantive issues, what the rebels have demanded, what the government is willing to give, those sorts of things have apparently not been discussed.
And interestingly, on Tuesday, when the rebel leader did invite these stunned journalists in to see the interior of the house and to talk with them about his position, he said as far as he was concerned, negotiations haven't started yet, that nothing has been discussed, and that, in fact, all the rebel--all the hostage releases that we've seen so far were--he said--his decision, unilateral decisions based on their own interests and not on dialogue.
JIM LEHRER: On these hostage releases, is there any pattern to them?
JONATHAN MILLER: It's hard to detect a pattern. I guess an overall pattern you could say would be that they're not the most important people, as far as the rebels are concerned. Actually, the names of the people who are released on any given day is, is anybody's guess. There have been a couple that have been released specifically for reasons.
The Guatemalan ambassador, for example, was released in honor of Guatemala's coming to an agreement with the rebels there just prior to the signing of that treaty on Sunday. But others have been released in groups. It's a little bit hard to find a pattern of exactly why--certainly the people the rebels want in the house are still in the house.
JIM LEHRER: Who are some of the most important people still in there, Jon?
JONATHAN MILLER: It's an important group as far as the Peruvian government is concerned. They have the foreign minister, the minister of agriculture, the president of the supreme court, five congressmen. There's the president--President Alberto Fujimori's brother is in there. He has no position in the government, but he's obviously a family member. There are Japanese businessmen. There's the Japanese ambassador. There's the ambassador from Bolivia. And Bolivia is important to the Tupac Amaru group because there are some of their comrades in prison in Bolivia. So this is quite--quite a high-powered group still in.
JIM LEHRER: Finally, just in general atmospherics, I guess is the best way to put it, is there a heightened or reduced feeling that this thing is going to end peacefully, or with violence by either side?
JONATHAN MILLER: Well, everything we've heard all along has been pro peace, has been in favor of a peaceful settlement. Now that's come from both the rebel side and from the government side and from all the hostages who have been released and from the people of Lima, the people of Peru. Everyone has been publicly saying that that is what they want. On the other hand, we heard from President Fujimori just the other day saying that he could not finally rule out a violent or a military solution to this thing because not until at least the hostage takers lay down their arms. He said the choice is really theirs. So while all the statements from President Fujimori on down have been in favor of both a rapid and a peaceful solution, the military solution is still hanging out there as a remote possibility.
JIM LEHRER: And the reporters who went in the other day and talked to the hostage takers, did they come back with any reading of the possibility of violence in their end of it?
JONATHAN MILLER: Well, one thing that people noted was that the rebels really are seriously armed, that they are carrying automatic weapons, they have back packs which apparently have explosives in them. They say they've mined the gardens in the back and in the front. They've mined the roof, so the rebels are serious about--about protecting themselves.
And that, I think, if not a suggestion that there may be violence, is at least a reminder that this is a very volatile situation. As far as the--as threats of violence, we had heard that right on the first day of this siege, that the rebels were going to begin killing people if they didn't start to get their demands, beginning with the foreign minister. We haven't heard that repeated since that--really that one time on the first day of the crisis.
JIM LEHRER: Does it still remain a possibility that this could go on for weeks, if not months?
JIM LEHRER: And meanwhile, the Red Cross and other people continue to provide food, clothing, and other provisions, is that correct?
JONATHAN MILLER: That's right. In fact, here in Lima a lot of the discussion has been about the logistics of just keeping such a large group of people going in such a small space. It's getting easier as the hostages are released, but the Red Cross has played a very, very important role, the International Red Cross, in providing not just food and water and some basic sanitation facilities but even music and messages from families and trying to make things as comfortable as possible for the hostages inside. Interestingly, the rebels, themselves, have allowed this to happen.
They control that house but they've allowed it to happen, saying that they're not out to hurt anybody. You know, this is--they're humanitarian--they're trying to redress social ills that, that need redressing, that need answering, and so they've allowed quite a bit of comfort to be given for these hostages, although it's certainly not a comfortable place in there.
JIM LEHRER: All right. Jon Miller, thank you very much for being with us.
JONATHAN MILLER: Thank you.
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